I'm not afraid to admit I'm terrified

[StealthPolarBear]

I really am. It feels like we're hurtling towards no deal Brexit with a coward and idiot at the helm who couldnt organise a booze up in a brewery.
What are we heading for? Huge economic crash? War?

Blinking you wouldn't be shocked, as you get it, but the gulf of cultural practise, let alone competency, would make many's eyes water.

Lovely human beings. Incompetent (allegedly degree qualified) practitioners.

Also, Blinkingblimey it sounds rather xenophobic, racist even, to suggest that non-EU medical professionals are somehow of a lower quality than those from the EU.

GRONKY I am not in ANY WAY suggesting that those who come from other countries are in anyway lesser human beings or of equal intelligence.., I will happily however state that this Country’s educational AND professional requirements in many areas currently exceed that of many others. Previously it was something we were proud of.

It’s scary how so many people think this is funny and you are being over dramatic, Stealth.

gronky last year's figures already reflect the trend-nay, political necessity- of employing overseas qualified HCPs.

10 years ago, you'd've had to have submit every uni module you'd sat, to get it modulated against a UK equivalent.

Last year, they applied, our Nigerians, and were in post in 3 months. They were not qualified. They could not do what we'd expect from a Y1 student.

The government evident told the HPC (or whatever they call themselves) to turn a blind eye.

Expect more of this.

This is multifaceted. It's not just Brexit (although our competent Portuguese and Polish left); its the withdrawal of the bursary, the need to employ someone, regardless of qualification.

My band 8 interviewed someone from the Far East last week, on skype. She said, prior to the interview, 'I hope he can walk and chew gum simultaneously'.

That's where Band 6 HCP recruitment is at. Having lost a) so many Europeans and yes, b) ditching the bursary.

gronky blinks is right. I see it, and work with it ever day.

These are not qualified individuals.

I am not in ANY WAY suggesting that those who come from other countries are in anyway lesser human beings or of equal intelligence.., I will happily however state that this Country’s educational AND professional requirements in many areas currently exceed that of many others

Thank you for the reassurance. Sadly, there is often a reduction in perceived intelligence/educational achievement for those who speak English as a second language, particularly for those whose first language is not closely related to English.

My band 8 interviewed someone from the Far East last week, on skype. She said, prior to the interview, 'I hope he can walk and chew gum simultaneously'.

I really do hope you keep an eye on her to ensure that she's not letting racial prejudices creep in.

I agree stealth it's scary.

I feel like I have no confidence in any of the big political parties, and politicians to get us anywhere. I just see us crashing towards no deal brexit with absolutely no one able to sort anything out, I don't trust any of the political parties to see us through the potential consequences of a no deal brexit either.

It's not particularly funny, or overdramatic. War is not that fucking unlikely, a period of political uncertainty, poor economy etc. We often go to war at times like that

I think anyone who thinks that we shouldn't be worried is being a complete idiot. Even if you are pro no-deal brexit, there's still no one I feel capable of giving us a positive future, it's still a hugely uncertain and massive political change for the country.

Seriously gronky?! Ypa🙏🏻

gronky nice try.

This isn't about racism. This is about whether overseas qualified staff now being, often desperately- employed by the NHS would meet 'our' standards.

As for language, what do many educated people in Nigeria speak? Oh yes, English.

And clever, with your 'educational achievement/perceived intelligence' conflation. Not falling for it.

Anyone with any analytical ability would, like I have unpacked this.

Stop your 'but but but-ery'.

To suggest the accepted training standards for HCP jobs that sound like ours are therefore equal- demonstrates either wilful ignorance (the cloak of 'racism' you wrap this in); or a lack of knowledge of the reality of post EU, post bursary NHS recruitment.

?????

Overseas staff have been employed for decade's by NHS and our standard is not same across EU either!!

Seriously gronky

Yes, it was one of the main subjects in my recent unconscious bias training. Even if it were entirely relating to an issue completely separate from racism, she should be careful, considering some of the recent HCPTS decisions.

As for language, what do many educated people in Nigeria speak? Oh yes, English.

Not necessarily as a first language and accent can play a role in unconscious bias even for EFL individuals.

'educational achievement/perceived intelligence' conflation

Both are issues when it comes to unconscious bias. Surely you have some sort of training on the issue?

gronky and drastic

I am telling you like I see it.

You don't see this because it's inconvenient to see that the NHS is becoming desperate.

I work, and have worked with many overseas qualified colleagues. Clever, well educated, sometimes shamingly, to us locals- forensically dedicated to their specialisation.

However, after a 35 year career, this is no longer necessarily the case.

I am daily shocked by what I witness.

What if a radiographer xrayed your child's right knee instead of left ankle? And this was the 3rd report, 3 different staff in a month, you'd investigated? What if the upper management called it 'a training issue'?

Would you be calling me 'racist' or them 'not qualified' to fire radiation around?

gronky please defend your fears of 'unconscious bias' if that were your child.

Gronky -stop it🤣....you’re starting to sound like an HR director in a noir Marvel film.
If people can’t do the job, they shouldn’t be doing the job. And YES, when it comes to healthcare accents DO!!!! matter - if the HCP can’t understand the whisper “I’m struggling to breathe?” If they can’t grasp what the patient is trying to say? No, they should not be there.

And, as an aside, in the 'top three' of people who can't do medical imaging yet are employed to do it'....In my Trust.. one is white, auburn, and Slovenian.

blinky sadly, you're right. If I can drag my 'non-British trained' colleague off her ass from behind the control panel ( a surprisingly large number of non UK trained HCPs expect HCAs to actually interact with and, ew, touch patients), often the patient will look to me with embarrassment as they can't understand my colleague, either because their accent is unfamiliar or English skills aren't great.

That could be your mum.

I do not completely blame Brexit. It hasn't helped, tho. At all.

Miljah, Blinkingblimey , I'm afraid that it isn't a convenient binary/mutually exclusive issue. Yes, there are healthcare professionals (both foreign and natively educated British) who are un(der)qualified but, equally, discrimination is still an important issue. Both need to be addressed.

For the specific case you have described, if true and complete in its account, you absolutely should engage in whistleblowing.

if the HCP can’t understand the whisper “I’m struggling to breathe?”

A limited understanding of English is separate from prejudices experienced due to a specific accent. Please don't minimise the discrimination some people have to face on a daily basis.

gronky I fall on my knees is tearful delight if my (I don't care, it's a bum on a seat) employs a competent worker. I really, really don't care about their skin colour, their place if birth (I was born in Africa).

Sod off with your 'unconscious bias'. I measure competency, the ability to do the job, all of it. Which might include recognising that here, in Britain, medical imaging professionals interact with their patients. Get informed consent via effective and appropriate communication. Read, and understand the imaging request. Perform it correctly.

And sometimes get human excretions on yourself. 🙄😊

I'm not 'unconsciously biased' against recent employees, from overseas training courses.

I am openly biased against the incompetency that Brexit and the removal of the bursary has wrought upon your healthcare.

OOI- are you an 'educator'?

gronky you could equally be talking about a Liverpudlian in Essex or a Glaswegian in Norfolk - BUGGER ALL TO DO WITH BREXIT, sorry.

Everyone. Sorry for the rabbit hole we may have gone down.

My 'message' is that people need to understand that, since the Referendum, presumably the Tories have sought to mitigate the staffing crisis in the NHS via, conspiracy theory alert, not examining the qualifications of some overseas health care professionals qualifications. This is done by the HPC (?) who aren't the greatest authority, it has to be said.

But when the loss of staff due to Brexit (and yes, the removal of the bursary) is replaced by (yes, lovely) people who can't identify a left knee from a right ankle, we have a problem.