Leavers rejoice

[Coppersulphate]

The Brexit Party are doing really well in the polls. I just hope they do as well in the election.
I think their slogan should be "Tell them again".
I would like to see a clean sweep of Brexiteers but I know that is not going to happen.
I have sent off my postal vote.

@ime4chocolate - Her red lines were not the problem, her negotiating skills around those red lines were

Her red lines were most definitely a problem. The image attached shows quite clearly how her red lines are a problem.

It sunk in long ago and by looking at the BP numbers I am not the only one to conclude that no deal is better than a bad deal (or revoke).

That makes you a fanatic or dangerously deluded, or both.

{It sunk in long ago and by looking at the BP numbers I am not the only one to conclude that no deal is better than a bad deal (or revoke).}

No deal means that EVERYTHING changes, I presume those that are advocating it appreciate that. It definitely does not mean 'things stay the same'.

That makes you a fanatic or dangerously deluded, or both

Nope, just a very ordinary person with two kids and a dog leading a non-fanatical, non-delusional life but expecting the Government to deliver on their promise - nothing wrong there I don't think.

Nothing wrong with voting leave, everything wrong with supporting no deal. That's my point. It's an extremist view and deeply irresponsible. I'm not blaming you personally for your views but I'm angry that politicians present it as an acceptable scenario that ordinary people like you will support.

{non-delusional life but expecting the Government to deliver on their promise}

You have identified the problem in this sentence.
The government lied to everybody. Although, the leaflet put out by the government before the referendum was largely correct.

If they can't deliver it then don't offer it - they have been pratting about trying to save career and party for the last 3 years (Cons and Labour). The WA is dead in the water so for those that still want to leave (as I do) there is only one other party out there running on a leave ticket.

So to be clear, you want to leave at all cost? Really?
If so, I'm afraid it is a form of fanaticism.

The steel industry is in bad shape, do you really want to drive the final nail in the coffin? That's one consequence of No Deal.

This is written by UK Steel director general:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/26/uk-steel-industry-brexit-eu-damage-exports

If they can't deliver it then don't offer it

If you truly believe that just because something is offered to you without pausing to think of its actually possible or not, then you are deluded, and quite naive in my opinion.

Why do you think DC quit so quickly? Why did Boris look quite scared the moment the result was announced? Because they knew it was not possible to achieve without massive damage to the U.K.

What apart from stirring up crowds has your pal Farage actually done? How will he promote your leave ticket? As he did as a representative of the EU fisheries commission where he only attended once out of 42 times, so never put the British case.

{The WA is dead in the water so for those that still want to leave (as I do) there is only one other party out there running on a leave ticket.}

You are obviously having difficulty with this, which is not unique so I am not singling you out.
THE WA WILL BE SIGNED before the EU does any deal or no deal with the EU.
If you hear Boris or any other person in the UK saying anything to the contrary they are LYING.
The EU said in December that the WA is the START of ANY leave process. They also said that there will be NO negotiations until it is signed. This is the view held by all 27 countries so you should believe them and not some shyster in the UK.

Nope, just a very ordinary person with two kids and a dog leading a non-fanatical, non-delusional life but expecting the Government to deliver on their promise - nothing wrong there I don't think.

But nobody promised no deal. The referendum literature said that we'd leave with a deal. Anybody saying they voted for no deal is lying as it wasn't on offer.

No deal is catastrophic. I've yet to see anybody advocating this say that they also understand the implications of this. I assume none of them live pay cheque to pay cheque as, if they did, they wouldn't want instant price rises on nigh on EVERYTHING they buy.

If they can't deliver it then don't offer it

No one is doubting the choice should never have been offered but it takes an incredible lack of critical thinking to still be persuing that argument now.

You voted for smething that wasn’t possible in practice.

With a bit of critical thinking you either accept whatever we end up with is going to be far worse than we have now and put forward rationale about why it’s worth it or you accept what you choose was impossible and decide what we have makes more sense.

I’m sick of Leavers still insisting we should carry on regardless, all the while insisting it’s going to be fine, whilst not providing a slither of evidence that that is the case or why it’s worth it.

People should be thinking about their children.

Do you truly believe that just because something is offered to you without pausing to think of its actually possible or not, then you are deluded, and quite naive in my opinion

I would say it's very deluded and naive to believe that, because a party offers it to you, it's possible for a minority group to overturn the wishes of a majority group and believe that we just carry on as if June 2016 never happened, without pausing to think about the implications of that but heyho that's politics for you.

I have voted for (the only) leave party. You will have to draw your own conclusions and try and interpret, as MPs and the media will, as to whether the BP's voters are making a protest vote or whether they do actually want 'no deal'. It's not a GE so it's probably a good time to get your point across without having to trawl through any party manifestos (not that there are any yet for the Brexit Party).

So still seeing nothing fanatical there.

Bear,

How dare you say " no one is doubting the choice should never have been offered".

I am not doubting. I am delighted that the choice was offered. I regret that it wasn't offered years ago.

I am thinking of my children. I do not want them tied to this bureaucratic organisation.
I laugh when I think it is called "Union". What's United about it.
We give it a lot of money. It tells us what to do.

I'd vote for Brexit if someone, anyone could tell me what benefits it will bring.

There are none.

I'm off to cook a roast dinner now 😋 so will check back later.

If the majority genuinely still want Brexit, now all the cards are on the table, then fine.

But I don’t believe that is the case.

Those who still support it are still resolutely ignoring the reality of the situation.

Even if Farage got 40% tonight it’s not a majority and it’s likely to be of a poor turnout.

If we had an honest vote about what was possible in practice, Leave would not win because no one will choose to make themselves and their families poorer with nothing in return.

How dare you say " no one is doubting the choice should never have been offered"

I ‘dare’ say it because people were offered something that could not happen in reality.

With a lot more planning and a lot more realism, a sensible choice could have been offered but an in / out binary choice was never going to work.

The EU and the NHS are not connected

Comedy gold OP. Where do you think they get their staff?

Leavers never seem to join the dots. Everything is so simplistic in their little world.

{We give it a lot of money. It tells us what to do.}
0.7% of the UK's GDP is not a lot of money, the UK government can therefore 'spend' 99.3% of the money as it wishes.
About 2-3% is spent on defence because NATO demands it.
About 40% goes on welfare etc.

The 0.7% includes access to Europe wide security and a host of other functions.
You have been told this repeatedly so you either have the memory of a goldfish or simply enjoy repeating easily checked 'lies'. A bit like a certain Farage.

{Even if Farage got 40% tonight it’s not a majority and it’s likely to be of a poor turnout.}

This election is to select representatives to sit in Brussels if the UK remains, it is not a UK specific election, therefore WRONG QUESTION.

Even the most ardent Brexiters like JRM acknowledge that no deal benefits will not be seen for 50 years. That's ok for the 'I'm alright Jack' comfortably well off but for the vast majority it's a disaster. Listening to the potential Tory leaders spout nonsense about delivering Brexit and in the same breath talking about making life better for ordinary people just makes me want to scream at the madness of it all.