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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

OP posts:
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The80sweregreat · 14/04/2019 11:05

Labour should seize this opportunity to replace Jeremy : send him off to grow things / retire gracefully whilst a new leader has a proper plan for Brexit and can get ready for a General election with a centre ground party and some clear policies.
Won't happen though.

Littlespaces · 14/04/2019 11:10

www.dannydorling.org/?p=5568

Tanith · 14/04/2019 11:20

“Interesting how that advert has dressed Farage as a rich country Tory.”

Yes, I noticed that! Looks like NF is trying to distance himself from the working class “rabble” and leave them to the Yaxley-Lennon agitators.

And he has the nerve to talk about betrayal!

DGRossetti · 14/04/2019 11:20

I'm actually struggling to come up with any politician with charisma?

Remember, Tory office central had to make lack of charisma a selling point with IDS - "The Quiet Man". Which suggests that they thought "charisma" was synonym for "loud" . Which actually explains an awful lot of political coverage these days.

Ultimately, I think "charisma" has had it's day in a world of TV images that can be stitched up together to remove a persons charisma, or conversely to bestow it where it's lacking. No amount of award winning journalism, curating decades of research and analysis into finely crafted prose can compete with 10 second video clips that are halfway round the world before someones read the preface.

I think it's clear that not only do a lot of people not reject shallow ignorant politicians. They want them. Big time.

howabout · 14/04/2019 11:46

Very very funny Mail trolling of Team Boris. He polled over 50% of the vote in 2017 and only slightly less in 2015. If there was a mass defection of his support base to the Brexit Party it would hurt him.

The far more likely outcome is a split of Remainers between Labour and LibDem making him ever more secure.

I guess a mass defection of Tory Remainers to the LibDems would hurt him but begs the question of why didn't that happen in 2017?

howabout · 14/04/2019 11:55

... and now I need the brain bleach because curiosity got the better of me and I clicked the link. Sad

SwedishEdith · 14/04/2019 11:56

Iain Dale on LBC now on a Brexit topic saying he has a switchboard full of male callers and wondering if “women don’t care about Brexit”

Brexit is very much a predominantly male issue hence all the warmongering references and talk of betrayal.

ElenadeClermont · 14/04/2019 12:17

Would someone direct Iain Dale to Mumsnet, please?
We are too busy discussing the real consequences of Brexit to have time to waste time shouting on the radio.

Butterymuffin · 14/04/2019 12:22

Guardian / Observer reporting that Stephen Dorrell is defecting to Change UK and that Ken Clarke has said he 'probably' would if a hardline Brexiteer took over as Tory leader.

MyLadyDeadlock · 14/04/2019 12:34

I'll hold a party if BoJo is booted out WineGrin

There are actually a lot of Tory MP's presiding over remain constituencies...

The80sweregreat · 14/04/2019 12:43

I listen to lbc and other phone ins and lots of women ring in and women politicians are on there talking about Brexit.

Peregrina · 14/04/2019 12:49

Boris Johnson had a majority of 5,034 at the last election, way down from 10,700 at the 2015 election. If this were to be targetted by Labour, it should be easily winnable, especially if the Brexiters split the Tory vote.

Icantreachthepretzels · 14/04/2019 12:53

frumpety I think (not sure) that in EU elections we vote for the party, not a candidate. If Richard Corbett is top of the list (which I assume he is) then a vote for labour would be a vote for him getting his job back - and any over spill would then go to the next person down (probably the other current labour MEP).
But - because it's for the party not the candidate - a vote for labour is taken simply as a vote for labour (no one expects us to know who our MEPs are!) which means it would be taken as a vote for whatever labour policy is, regardless of what the actual candidate stands for. Hence why I'm reluctant to give them my vote - even though Richard Corbett seems sound enough - unless they change to supporting a second referendum.
I imagine both the lib dems and the greens will be standing in the region, so a proper remain vote could go to them.
Closer to the time - if it still looks like he elections are going ahead - I'll do some digging and find out what the vote share was, and what swings it's had in recent elections to help me decide which party would be the most effective to vote for. I'll post anything I find on here - as there seems to be a few Yorkshire and Humberites kicking around.
Though Howabouts info was a good start. From the look of that, the greens are the best bet for a remain vote.

Windowsareforcheaters · 14/04/2019 13:06

Can you remember when Portillo was booted and everyone cheered and then it turned out he was not as bad as he seemed?

Do you think the same will happen to BJ?

Tanith · 14/04/2019 13:19

If they hope to be taken seriously, The Green Party have got to get their safeguarding house in order first.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greens-ignored-sex-claims-against-deputy-leader-will-duckworth-ngzdgxvc0

talkradio.co.uk/news/report-calls-urgent-review-green-party-safeguarding-policy-after-child-rapist-appointed

Regardless, I don’t think enough people will vote for them: even in their best days, they never managed more than a fringe vote and their antics over the past few years are very worrying.

TatianaLarina · 14/04/2019 13:26

ever more secure.

No such thing for the Tories. Under 49 years, their support falls off a cliff.

Highest support: 70yrs+
Next: 60 yrs+
Next: 50 yrs+
Under 50 yrs: Tory support flips into minority.

The Tories are currently dependent on pensioners.

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security
Butterymuffin · 14/04/2019 13:27

Can you remember when Portillo was booted and everyone cheered and then it turned out he was not as bad as he seemed?

It took at least 5 years for him to turn out to be an improvement. I'm not optimistic about the same for Boris. But I would enjoy him having a Portillo election night moment. Very much Grin

TatianaLarina · 14/04/2019 13:31

Boris Johnson had a majority of 5,034 at the last election, way down from 10,700 at the 2015 election. If this were to be targetted by Labour, it should be easily winnable, especially if the Brexiters split the Tory vote.

Totally doable. Justine Greening went from a majority of around 12,000 in 2015 to 1,500 in 2017.

DarlingNikita · 14/04/2019 13:32

Do you think the same will happen to BJ?

Emphatically not. Johnson is uniquely self-serving and vile.

countrygirl99 · 14/04/2019 13:35

Maud yes that's the ad. Everytime I see it I wish it had been made for Remain.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2019 13:37

It is very significant that the "crossover" age, at which in average people are more likely to vote Tory, has been increasing for some years now:

The old adage that voters will turn to the Tories, as they in turn become older, is no longer true
This is because for several years - decades now - the accompanying gains from capitalism, as workers enter what shoukd be their prime earning decades, are not happening

OublietteBravo · 14/04/2019 13:38

Can you remember when Portillo was booted and everyone cheered and then it turned out he was not as bad as he seemed?

Do you think the same will happen to BJ?

The everyone cheering if BJ lost his seat - yes.

But I think he might turn out to be even worse than he seems. Highly unlikely to have a Portillo-style change of profile.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2019 13:39

Hence the great potential for any party that can offer hope for the future

Brexit did this by lies and fantasies
Remain needs to offer hope via achievable policies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/04/2019 13:40

Portillo didn't have BJ's track record of lying and unscrupulous xenophobic populism

Windowsareforcheaters · 14/04/2019 13:43

If someone had told me in 1996 there would be someone worse than Portillo I wouldn't have believed them.

This really is a very special time in UK politics.

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