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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

OP posts:
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OhYouBadBadKitten · 07/04/2019 22:36

Quick question, can university students vote in both their EU constituencies? Obviously they can vote in local elections at both their home and university towns, but only one place for parliamentary elections. I presume it's one place for EU elections?

NoWordForFluffy · 07/04/2019 22:37

...as of course, was the death of the late lamented John Smith - would we even be in this situation if he'd lived?

I said this on a previous thread. Labour Dan chart its woes (other than its brief resurgence under TB) from John Smith dying. And then compounding the issues by choosing the wrong Miliband brother.

If either of those hadn't happened, I think it's feasible to say we wouldn't be where we are today.

Motheroffourdragons · 07/04/2019 22:42

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

prettybird · 07/04/2019 22:50

According to this EU website (which also mentions that at the moment the UK won't be participating in the next EU elections Sad), it explicitly states that you can only vote once in EU elections. So a student would need to decide where to vote.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/elections-abroad/european-elections/index_en.htm

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 07/04/2019 22:53

Spent the afternoon with my dad who voted leave, he said only one thing about brexy, thank god, as he was surrounded by 6 remainders, 3 of them who didn't vote in the ref.. 🤔 But he said that we'll we've all had enough now, the result won't please anyone, because it's what no one asked for, they should just get it over with.. I suggested that the other option might be just not to do it at all... He sort of agreed. Probably he sensed the tone. 😬
I echo a pp, the anger I feel towards leavers.. I don't know how to get over it. I post things on fb, mostly dilly, sometimes ranting, when I think there is something others should know, I get maybe 3 or 4 people react, I know more of my friends think its a stupid idea... They are just bored of it. Not engaged at all. How has this happened, that even leave voters can't be bothered any more?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 07/04/2019 22:53

Well found Prettybird, thanks!

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 07/04/2019 22:54

silly not dilly.. 😁

prettybird · 07/04/2019 22:57

It took me a few attempts OYBBK Grin

HesterThrale · 07/04/2019 23:03

OYBBK I've heard my student DC talk about choosing tactically whether to vote at home or at Uni for elections according to how much 'use' the vote would be. (Unfortunately a wasted vote in our home constituency for GEs.)
I'm not sure whether you could vote in one place for one election, and the the other in a different vote?

prettybird · 07/04/2019 23:23

For GEs, students can indeed choose where their vote would have most impact.

Council elections, they can vote in both places (if both places are holding council elections).

European elections, it looks like the restriction is simply like a GE - that they can just vote once, but that again, they could choose where would be most effective.

Ds hadn't got round to putting himself on the electoral register for Aberdeen (as no elections were in the horizon even though I'd nagged him Hmm - no elections were scheduled until the Holyrood ones in 2021) but at least Scotland is a single European Parliament constituency - but given it would be just before exams, it would be easier if he could vote up there. Alternatively, he could sort out a proxy or postal vote for the EU elections (he will definitely be voting Grin)

If he had to choose in a GE, I think Glasgow South is more marginal than Aberdeen North, so he'd vote down here.

LonelyTiredandLow · 07/04/2019 23:34

The very best thing JC could do now is have a short video of him flipping the bird whilst blowing a raspberry.

I think a lot of leavers would even appreciate that.

RedToothBrush · 07/04/2019 23:51

amp.ft.com/content/8ea61fac-5947-11e9-939a-341f5ada9d40?__twitter_impression=true
Macron heads calls to impose tough conditions on Brexit delay

I'm pay walled but I suspect this is an interesting read.

OP posts:
woman19 · 07/04/2019 23:57

Looks like a Naughty Step Protocol.
"code of conduct" for UK. Blush
Can I copy and paste a whole FT , ?
Here's some key bits.

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
prettybird · 07/04/2019 23:59

I have been told Wink that if you google the exact article title, it is sometimes Wink possible to get round the pay wall.

I couldn't possibly comment Wink

woman19 · 08/04/2019 00:01

Looks a bit like Norway though. Grin
That worked for me prettybird

HesterThrale · 08/04/2019 00:16

woman those snippets you posted, if true, just smack of the EU trying to protect itself against the sort of bad faith shenanigans that JRM was threatening to pull. Great. We suffer because of his continued twattery.

Ellie56 · 08/04/2019 00:40

Yes Hester I was just thinking that Code of Conduct has been prompted by Jacob Rees Twat, RH member for the 19th Century... Hmm

Apileofballyhoo · 08/04/2019 00:49

Exact article headline worked for me too. Thanks!

mathanxiety · 08/04/2019 02:33

Last night an ATM was stolen from the border area, there have been several such thefts in the last couple of months. Dh was just saying he assumes it's the IRA, in whichever form they are now.

Not sure this is all IRA or even partly IRA. Four of the twelve ATMs were stolen from Antrim towns, nowhere near the border, and Antrim is heavily Unionist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_in_Northern_Ireland_by_religion_or_religion_brought_up_in#/media/File:Religion_Or_Religion_Brought_Up_In_Northern_Ireland_New_Districts_2011_Census.png

Whoever it is, they sure need hard currency for something.

Cailleach1 · 08/04/2019 05:03

Speaking of NI.... . This gave me a chuckle. Know it is not really funny, but if you don't laugh... .

It seems like the DUP's economic masterplan for NI post Brexit amounts to a few duty free kiosks selling fags n booze at Newry, a bit of diesel & cattle smuggling and milking Surrey for as much handouts as possible before UK splits up! Hardly Singapore.

twitter.com/davidmcw/status/1113165313506447360

mathanxiety · 08/04/2019 05:26

TiP I like your list too.

Both lists feature systemic / structural items that are not related to membership of the EU.

BigChoc, YY to the Works Councils and the more collaborative approach in Germany, respect for apprenticeship, etc. Above all, what that gives to Germany is the feeling that entire classes of society are not relegated to the sidelines, that nobody is voiceless. This is in contrast to the sense of disenfranchisement and being forgotten that have rent the UK and caused Brexit.

borntobequiet · 08/04/2019 05:36

Now I thought JRM was the Member for the 18th century. Happy to stand corrected. The top hat is more 19th century, it’s true. The persona as a whole is a Wodehouse caricature, early/mid 20th. The actuality is just appalling.

mathanxiety · 08/04/2019 05:41

From the post by OogieMcBoogie
Leading Conservative backbench Brexiter Jacob Rees-Mogg on Sunday reiterated his proposal for the UK to seek to veto EU budgets and other disruptions if it stayed.

“I don’t think the EU, in its jargon, has behaved towards us with sincere cooperation,” he told Sky News’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday, meaning “we are no longer obliged to follow sincere cooperation in return”.

He said: “When the multi-annual financial framework comes forward, if we are still in, this is our one-in-seven-year opportunity to veto the budget and to be really very difficult, and I hope that any British prime minister would take that opportunity.”

JRM outdoes himself yet again.

He seems to have forgotten that the UK may still want to conclude some sort of trade agreement with the EU a little down the road, and that wrecking the EU budget process out of sheer churlishness will be amply rewarded when that time comes.

He must have money riding on No Deal and some sort of worst case scenario in both the EU and UK.

Flowerplower · 08/04/2019 05:55

He definitely does want things to go as badly as possible for us mathanxiety- his father taught him how to profit from maximum chaos. www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjFnJDY2L_hAhUHkxQKHQWfBbQQzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbooks%2F2018%2Fnov%2F09%2Fmystic-mogg-jacob-rees-mogg-willam-predicts-brexit-plans&psig=AOvVaw1KRX7R7Mxp7jKxHCMq-mFJ&ust=1554785289221951

I'm very pro-union - one of the few places left employees can turn when their employer decides to try to screw them over. Our union has represented people on my team when our HR director was treating them very unfairly and they had nowhere else to go....And our work is very specialised, it's not just a case of if you don't like it just leave. Our union will also pay our tribunal fees if they think we have a chance at winning our case - otherwise the tribunal fees of £1000+ are unaffordable for most people - fees the Tories introduced to try to make justice unaffordable for workers.

PostNotInHaste · 08/04/2019 06:08

We deserve conditions as have not acted in good faith in this a number of times, the irony is that it will be the Brexiteers that shout the loudest over this using it as evidence as ti how controlled by Brussels we are despite that Just Ridiculous Model that tries to pass as a human showing in his tweet how much influence we have.

And many in the wider public will believe him and yet again attitudes will harden. It is beyond depressing. Sos I’m not coping well with Brexit either and usually do. I think for me my hormones are sup the creek with peri menopause which play a part but it’s the utter needlessness that gets to me, none of this needed to happen and feel like stuck in a car hurtling towards a cliff that can’t stop as didn’t bother with regular services and now the breaks have failed .