Westminstenders: For Whom the Bell Tolls

[RedToothBrush]

Although another round of Indicative Votes is scheduled, arguably the chance for a soft Brexit has gone for two reasons.

Parliament was unable to show a majority because those on the opposition benches were too busy saying 'I want this but only on these terms' or still being too unwilling to compromise. Thus the opportunity and point for a third round starts to look weak.

The second is that Tory MPs were resolute in an opposition to a soft Brexit.

Unless May decides to be the next Robert Peel and go for a soft Brexit on the back of opposition vote its not going to happen.

This leaves May's deal as it stands or no deal.

May seems to have actually lost a few supporters of her deal since Friday, and given the performance of the opposition tonight and the prospect of round 3 of indicative votes they will still be unwilling to go for May's deal.

Which leaves no deal.

There is talk of a managed no deal. There is no such thing. The EU plan for that is essentially to push us into the deal in order to get a trading relationship.

And that will push us closer to the us. Which is what many torys want. And what polling seems to suggest they will have surprising support for.

Sorry folks but it don't look great tonight.

The opposition benches may look back on tonight and think they screwed it. I hope I'm wrong. But I fear tonight might have sealed our fate.

Tomorrow may has a 5hr cabinet. And a secret document dmfor the cabinet to study first.

It's going to get bumpy from here on in...

Tatiana, I only read the Daily Telegraph

Ahhh no wonder.

hell bent on out national identity being erased

Rather ironic, this apparent concern about "losing national identity", which is generally held simultaneously with a strident certainty that the EU is a cipher for the ever-incorrigible perma-enemies of France and Germany.

I’m actually happy to hear from pro Brexit posters might allay some of the No Deal headlines I can see brewing

I agree with Dana that our national identity is being erased. But they probably won't like what it's being replaced withv....

I’m happy to hear from Brexiters who have some grasp of reality... this is not one.

Imagine the USA being controlled by another country

You're right. America does the controlling. As the UK will learn to its cost when they try and negotiate a trade deal with them. Like a hamster negotiating with a leopard.

Dana the US highlights some issues with a more unregulated, low tax economy.
The health services there are very expensive and people regularly go bankrupt if they get seriously ill. If your dc gets cancer then one of the first things families do is start fund raising money for treatment.
Food quality is much poorer, leading to both worse health outcomes for lower income people and higher rates of illness from food contamination.
There are significant issues with drinking water in some parts of the country due to poorly monitored toxin levels.
As trump is finding out even a country with the economic clout of the US suffers in a trade war. They cannot just do what they like on trade If they are trading with other powerful trading blocs. But the UK is leaving it's powerful trading bloc.

Edwin Hayward is really good at giving real life examples of WTO rules and their dire effects.

Edwin Hayward 🦄 🏹 🗡️ @ukdomainnames

How's that "taking back control" working out for you DanaSchmidt ? All I see is chaos and less control of anything with the "solutions" resulting in less control of our borders. People will come in via NI in future instead of via Dover.

Dana
The UK is not being controlled by another country. That’s not what the EU is. Britain contributed significantly to EU laws and regulations and have only been overruled a handful of times in 40 years.
Trade deals take years and come with conditions. A FTA with the USA would lead to a lowering of food standards, for example. The UK on its own, having been stripped of half a century worth of trade agreements, does not hold enough negotiating power to get a deal without huge concessions. Without the EU, the next Tory government may well decide to privatise the NHS in order to suck up to Trump.
FOM is not a bad thing. EU migrants are net contributors and for example the care sector relies heavily on them.
Even hardliners are shifting their no deal rhetoric from “it’ll be great” to “we’ll recover at some point”.
The EU is NOT without flaws, but any form of Brexit puts the UK at a disadvantage compared to membership.

I'm sure there are a lot of UK citizens who'd rather be fed, housed, clothed and know their children have a good future over a "control" which thus far has delivered precious little. Especially for the vulnerable.

Even now, Danas thoughts aren't for real people, but some intangible construct that they value over humanity. Oh look - a Tory ! !!!!

Hasenstein delurking to say sorry on your loss. Your mother in law sounds like she meant an awful lot to you. Condolences to you and DW

Morello,

John Bolton in the last couple of days has said the UK is at the front of the queue regarding trade deals with the US. A total contrast to Obama who said the opposite.
New Zealand has also said they are "desperate" to do deal with the UK.
We also need to look at the emerging markets of the east, namely China. China invested more in the UK than any other country in Europe last year, we can double or triple that investment overnight.

India open to trade deals, concession we make, make it easier for skilled Indian nationals to come to Britain, instead of all the hoops they have to go through now, while unskilled Romanians swarm in from the EU, that cant be fair.

Look at the commonwealth nations, look at nations we give aid to like Pakistan.
The list is endless and yes deal with the EU27.
Maybe join the trade agreements that USA, Canada and Mexico have.

We do not need a political union.

And quite frankly I wish someone else ie the EU would take control because then this clusterfuck would be over and we could continue to live our lives without the fear of lack of food and medicines.

I really really wish all the companies and organisations that had NDA's imposed by the government woukd just unilaterally break them.

Me too, although I think it's too late now.

I rather meant that because of the commitment at the last GE, everyone in HOc is backed into a leave corner and there seems no possibility of that turning

No, because the Manifesto only stands when someone wins. The other manifestos have bitten the dust. A sensible Labour party would start listening to its voters and would probably find that if the other pressing issues were tackled, they could quietly ditch Brexit, or water it down to BINO. Note the word Sensible - there doesn't seem to be much sense around these days.

Robert Peston
‏*@Peston*
Indicative votes are after all coming back tomorrow. Please contain your excitement

And when I sat the EU, I mean the rest of the EU, because we are the EU. For now, anyway.

John Bolton in the last couple of days has said the UK is at the front of the queue regarding trade deals with the US.

John Bolton isn't your kindly grandad looking to help you out. He's interested in asset stripping.

Yeah, I bet we are. Get us when we are desperate.

John Bolton in the last couple of days has said the UK is at the front of the queue regarding trade deals with the US.

Once the Irish border is sorted, that is.

Excitement well and truly contained.

Well yes, the Irish American contingent in Congress have been increasingly vocal in recent weeks about their support for the GFA.

India open to trade deals, concession we make, make it easier for skilled Indian nationals to come to Britain, instead of all the hoops they have to go through now
Remember when May scuttled off to India right after the ref, trumpeting proudly about trade deals, and India asked for exactly that – easier immigration from the country to here? Remember how she reacted?

I do. From May's side, it all went immediately and amazingly quiet.

You can draw your own conclusions as to why.

dreichuplands

Whilst i agree in part what you are saying, employment in the US is the highest its been since the 1960s, Black unemployment the lowest its ever been. Trump like him or loath him is doing a fantastic job.

Just because we leave the EU doesnt mean we lower our standards, Britain leads the way on many issues over the EU.
It doesnt mean we will have no NHS or replace it with Medicade, it doesnt mean we will have chlorinated chicken either lol

These arguements are more stale that my old nans box of Family Circle,

dana the US would love a trade deal with the UK, in particular it would like access to the NHS and to trade the poorer quality food items it is currently not able to.
This isn't in the UK's interests, we don't have the same interests as the US. To survive Brexit Britain will require understanding this.
Most people in the USA think universal health care is a socialist nightmare.
If I buy over the counter medication in the US it is usually three times the price of the UK. There are rules protecting Pharmaceutical companies from having to allow generic versions of their medication. Prescriptions even with insurance are routinely hundreds of pounds.