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Brexit

Westministenders: Happy Birthday Chris Grayling!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2019 22:35

Yep he's an April Fool. No really he is!

Today (1st April - I'm starting the thread slightly early) is the return of Indicative Votes.

This follows the defeat of May's Deal by 286 to 344 on Friday.

The Sunday Press has been full of talk of a Cabinet Collapse with 10 Cabinet Brexiteers threatening to walk, with the support of 170 Tory MPs, if May goes for a softer Brexit or fails to leave the EU by 22nd May regardless of whether this is with a Deal or with No Deal and Remain Cabinet Members threatening to walk if May goes for No Deal.

This is in addition to May's apparent threat that the House was at its limits for the process which has been taken as meaning she is considering a GE. Which both Tory Brexiteers and Tory Remainers say they will block. The threat of a GE has largely been seen as a threat to force MPs to back her deal.

May now faces the choice she has always resisted, which on the face of it, looks like it could cause a split in the Tory Party. She will obviously do everything she can to avoid making that choice. Her solution seems to be MV4 with the Snell / Nandy Amendment, which gives parliament a say in the next phase of Brexit. This theorectically is about the Political Declaration (PD) which the Indicative Votes essentially is about.

However it needs to be stressed repeatedly that the EU have said, that they do not care about the PD and all soft Brexits (variations on May's current PD) also require the WA to pass, such is the EU's distrust in the UK. This would include the Common Market 2.0 suggestion (Boles Amendment 189-283), despite what various MPs have suggested simply because it could be used as a temporary transition by the backdoor and CM2.0 doesn't cover certain aspects of withdrawal such as the divorce settlement, long term citizens rights and fishing rights amongst others. And this is going to be a big issue when it comes to the DUP who are now leaning to a soft Brexit or even revocation.

In light of this apparent Government Nervous Breakdown John Major has raised the prospect of a temporary government of National Unity, which is difficult to envisage how that would work given the current parliamentary polarisation. Indeed Labour have ruled this possibility out.

There has also been comments made that any policy passed by Parliament stemming from Indicative Votes could be ignored by May by her using her status of PM to ask the Queen to refuse to give it Royal Ascent. Which surely would go down a storm with her Majesty to be asked to be embroiled into this political pantomine.

Voting on the Indicative Votes is due to start at 8pm - 8.30pm tomorrow with a debate before it.

The Options on the table (but yet to be selected by the Speaker) are:
A) Baron, unilateral backstop exit.

B) Baron, if no WA by then, no-deal Brexit on 12/4. 160-400

C) Clarke, permanent UK-wide customs union. 265-271

D) Boles, Common Market 2.0 (EEA+CU).
Broadly similar to motion from last week, with some changes. 189-283

^E) Kyle / Beckett, WA + PD approval subject to confirmatory PV. 268-295

F) Jones/Grieve, PV if necessary to prevent no deal. Not previously tabled.

G) Cherry, A50 revocation as default if necessary to prevent no deal.
More detailed version of last weeks motion. 184-293

H) Eustice, EFTA+EEA.
Slightly modified version from last week. 64-377

Clark and Boles amendments are the ones to watch. They have apparently gathered more support since last week. Boles CM2.0 appears to have Labour swinging support behind it, unofficially atm.

May is also under pressure to allow the Cabinet Free Votes this time on the CU vote (they abstained last week). Whether this will happen is still anyone's guess.

There is also talk of an alternative 'Custom's Partnership' idea - a fudge that would see the UK stay in parts of a customs union. This idea has been previously rejected by the EU and the Cabinet. But we know how much May loves her fudges.

Robert Peston is saying tonight that whether May and the Government fall may rest on how much support the Customs Union and her allies are desparate for it to get a parliamentary majority - particularly with support from more Conservatives (it only got 35 Tory Votes last time). This would mark a breakthrough and the first positive majority for Brexit.

If it passes, the suggestion is that MV4 will be Tuesday. Of course it remains to be seen if ERG hardliners who switched last week would continue to support her deal if she goes for a CU option and whether getting a parliamentary majority for a CU plus the Snell Amendment would be sufficient to persuade enough Labour MPs, the DUP and perhaps Tory Remainers to push it over the line.

However May going for the CU could provoke a Cabinet resignations or even splits in the party meaning that MV4 on Tuesday is somehow impossible or at least delayed.

Expect May to keep her cards to her chest about whether she will go for a CU as long as possible as a result. (Possibly NOT before a MV4).

Meanwhile it looks like there might be a storm brewing about the stripping of NI born Irish citizens of their EU citizenship, which seems to be in breech of the GFA.

And the Tory Leadership contest is in full swing. Hunt and Javid have been labelled as The TiTs (Theresa in Trousers), Johnson is styling himself as a One Nation Tory (although he is not a member of the One Nation Group within the party) who will bring sweeping tax cuts, and Grayling is saying the next leader must be a Cabinet Minister with experience and has always been a Brexiteer.

And Finally, David Allen Green raises a concern about a potential new exit day, if it changes from 12 April.

David Allen Green @ Davidallengreen
If a new exit day is not agreed until 10/11 April (ie European Council), there will be not enough time for exit day in domestic legislation to be amended in time before 12 April. It was close this time, with the shift from 29 March.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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user1471429825 · 01/04/2019 21:07

red thanks so how can they possibly know who voted for what and where then .... it’s a third of our constituency ? It still means he is dishonestly using the figures to his own end by not pointing this out clearly.

woman19 · 01/04/2019 21:14

In 2015 we had 70152 registered voters. 2016 (referendum) it miraculously dropped to 49790. By 2017 registered voters were up to 72,277

Can't find the link, but did anyone else see the threads about the missing 1 million votes in the ref? Votes cast and disappeared. (as well as the disenfranchised EU 5m)

dontcallmelen · 01/04/2019 21:16

I had a hysterectomy at forty four (ovaries not removed ) peri menopause started a couple of years after, which wasn’t to bad occasional hot flush, some mood swings.
Full menopause started early fifties, I’m fifty nine now & rarely have flushes during the day, but as soon as I get into bed they start I can’t remember the last time I had a good nights sleep, memory has been affected & skin has become much thinner, wrinkles are staring to show now as well, especially as I’m quite thin never gained any weight.
My GP won’t prescribe HRT as I have a heart condition, it’s feels never ending sometimes just wish it stop.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 21:19

thanks so how can they possibly know who voted for what and where then ....

They mostly can't unless they are one of the handful of areas which recorded results by electoral ward.

It still means he is dishonestly using the figures to his own end by not pointing this out clearly.

Thats exactly what he is doing.

I spent a long time looking at the ref results and ward breakdowns in the course of these threads. In many areas its simply impossible to know for sure.

An acquentence of mine is a local Councillor and he tried to get a ward breakdown from the council by freedom of information. He didn't get anywhere with it because they simply don't have the data as there was no legal requirement to note it.

It's just one of the many ways that the ref was poorly thought out and executed.

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LuckyMarmiteLover · 01/04/2019 21:19

@AutumnCrow - thank you I didn’t know that! Will look at the NICE guidelines. Hopefully I won’t need HRT although I did have the rage on Saturday...

user1471429825 · 01/04/2019 21:21

woman19 could it have been possible to rest the entire country’s future on a more ill conceived poorly thought out and executed plan ?And then turn round and wonder why we are in chaos.

Littlespaces · 01/04/2019 21:22

@Louise

Some of the name pairings are funny. I will never listen to MP's names in quite the same way.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 21:24

Here's a good visual for you.

North Warwickshire Council Area (Blue) v North Warwickshire Constitency (Red)

You can see your missing area (and voters) pretty clearly comparing the images.

Westministenders: Happy Birthday Chris Grayling!
Westministenders: Happy Birthday Chris Grayling!
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MelanieCheeks · 01/04/2019 21:25

Gave up on The Laura Show after 10 minutes- that whispery filming On the sly style is very annoying.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 21:27

(North Warwickshire is the dark red section only if the red image. But you can still see its a different shape to the council one.)

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Littlespaces · 01/04/2019 21:28

Sky TV saying TM is considering bringing MV4 back teamed with a vote of no confidence in her Government if it fails to get enough votes.

Vote for my deal or face losing your seat in a General Election.

Jesus!

tobee · 01/04/2019 21:28

As a fellow womb removed but ovaries in tact, can I ask you @dontcallmelen if you had pms symptoms etc at what would have been time of the month?

BercowsSilkTie · 01/04/2019 21:30

@tobee my mum had a hysterectomy but they left her ovaries and she always knew exactly when her period would have been as she got pmt.

Littlespaces · 01/04/2019 21:31

What next?

Vote for the deal or else she will sacrifice the Downing Street cat?

It would unite the nation I suppose.

BercowsSilkTie · 01/04/2019 21:32

Ffs what is she playing at. Every time she does something insane I think she can't get worse then she outdoes herself!

horseshit · 01/04/2019 21:32

Vote for my deal or face losing your seat in a General Election.

Unless she gets a long extension and legislates for EP elections beforehand that might be exactly what the ERG wants, no?

dontcallmelen · 01/04/2019 21:35

tobee yes I still had pmt symptoms for a good few years, not so much now it’s sort of pmt lite now, the other weird thing was once I had the hysterectomy I no longer craved chocolate.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 21:35

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/apr/01/brexit-latest-live-news-indicative-votes--brexiters-dismiss-customs-union-plan-as-unacceptable-as-mps-prepare-for-more-indicative-votes-live-new?page=with:block-5ca24bc2e4b08334583661b5#block-5ca24bc2e4b08334583661b5

Officials have been given the green light to begin preparations for European elections in May as a “contingency” measure,
the Press Association reports.

David Lidington, effectively the deputy prime minister, said returning officers would be reimbursed by Whitehall for “reasonable” expenses incurred to prepare for the May 23 poll,

Littlebelina · 01/04/2019 21:37

I'm clearly too tired (or gone mad from Brexiteer) red as it took me a second to realise there aren't towns called south codswallop and claptrap....

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 21:39

Election Maps UKK@ElectionMapsUK*

European Parliament Voting Intention:

LAB: 30% (+1)
CON: 24% (-4)
UKIP: 18% (+1)
LDM: 10% (-1)
GRN: 8% (+2)
SNP: 4% (=)
PLC: 1% (=)

Via
@OpiniumResearch
, 28-29 Mar.
Changes w/ 12-15 Mar.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 21:39

Christopher Hope@christopherhope
NEW Senior Commons sources say results of indicative votes are due to be announced at around 10pm NOT 10,30pm

Indicative Results 10pm

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user1471429825 · 01/04/2019 21:40

red thanks for the link I’m pretty sure he’s using the Hanratty figures you supplied but obviously without explaining it fully it is purely guesswork (and despicably not crediting his source.). He is just using the sweeping generalisations of 67% of residents/constituents. On the upside if all the voters who signed the petition to revoke can find it in themselves to vote labour (we really are a two party constituency) and he doesn’t get his No Deal Brexit he dreams of which will alienate a good chunk of the Leavers he will probably find himself out of a job. Which he deserves for his manipulation of the truth and opaque use of data.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 21:45

Guy Verhofstadtt@guyverhofstadt*

#Brexit is not a bad April Fool's Joke, but a tragic reality for all our citizens and business.

It is now five to midnight.

Today MPs must find a compromise & stop this chaos.

This evening, for once voting "Yes", instead of every time voting "No".
< and only "yes" if the option has no unicorny bits >

Littlespaces · 01/04/2019 21:46

@bbclaurak

Gag at the Tory backbench spring reception tonight - 'the PM couldn't be here, but there are nineteen people here tonight, who I understand might be prepared to stand in for her'

Grin
tobee · 01/04/2019 21:46

Thanks @BercowsSilkTie and @dontcallmelen! I do wonder about symptoms. For example I have a horrible headache today and ice block feet which used to be typical pms. Still love chocolate 🍫 though. But less random rages. Probably all used up in current political crisis. Hmm