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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
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InterchangeableEmma · 29/03/2019 23:35

On 12 April, 2 weeks today , will we be celebrating or drowning, or looking forward to an extension of more dithering ?

I was fully expecting to have had no deal half an hour ago, I expect we'll be seeing it for real in two weeks.

But, I'll admit to a teeny glimmer of hope has that something slightly more positive might be possible.

I recieved my temporary residence papers for use in the case of no deal from the Dutch government this very afternoon. No deal feels very, very real from here, hysterical glimmer of hope or no.

GreatAuntBertha · 29/03/2019 23:36

The Tories would prefer to hang on to the likes of Mark Francois rather than Dominic Grieve. I'm sure that strategy will work out well for the party in the long run.

Ahem.

InterchangeableEmma · 29/03/2019 23:36

Dominic Grieve? FFS. Gits

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 23:37

Dominic Grieve loses confidence vote at Beaconsfield Conservative Association by 182 to 131 votes; paves way for deselection

Dominic Grieve needs to jump sip to the tiggers then.

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 23:37

ship. My underactive h key is the bane of my life.

Motheroffourdragons · 29/03/2019 23:40

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wherearemychickens · 29/03/2019 23:44

Will he move to TIG? He would make it into my fantasy cabinet as well, and I've never voted Tory in my life.

Horehound · 29/03/2019 23:45

I dont agree the risk of no deal is high.
You can clearly see all Mps voted against it, TM doesn't want it, the EU dont want that and we dont want it.
The EU immediately said after this vote was rejected that the 12th April is jist when we need to go back to them with a way forward for an extension. So even they don't see it happening. I bet it doesn't happen and I'd put my life on that.

NoWordForFluffy · 29/03/2019 23:46

I hope he resigns now. He's been close, so this may push him.

prettybird · 29/03/2019 23:52

If I were Dominic Grieve I would feel particularly aggrieved that it was a ex UKIP member who moved the motion of No Confidence Angry

But Grieve is a gentleman to his core even though he is a Conservative politician Smile so he will be be gentlemanly in his reaction. He has always put country, before party before his own advancement.

I do hope he makes the move to the TIGs/Change UK.

BelfastBloke · 29/03/2019 23:52

After today, I think no deal is the most likely outcome.

I think that's what the EU official (Belgian? woman) said to Kirsty Wark, but Kirsty W was wittering on about Theresa May's handling of things and didn't nail it down.

BelfastBloke · 29/03/2019 23:53

We're all caught up in the UK psycho-drama with personalities! and deadlines! and we're not listening to what the EU are saying.

Motheroffourdragons · 30/03/2019 00:00

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Icantreachthepretzels · 30/03/2019 00:01

I just emailed Dominic Grieve to tell him how sorry I was and suggesting (politely) that he might be happier over with the Tiggers.

Motheroffourdragons · 30/03/2019 00:03

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Icantreachthepretzels · 30/03/2019 00:05

I agree with you Mother hence why Monday is important. But only if they do something useful and realistic with the day.

Motheroffourdragons · 30/03/2019 00:12

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prettybird · 30/03/2019 00:13

I agree BelfastBloke - I think that there is still a strong chance of No Deal: accidental or otherwise SadShock

I've been saying that ever since the EU Council, where the E27 very cleverly went over the heads of the Government to Parliament, but I'm not Parliament is (yet) fully aware of the danger up to the task Sad

Even if Parliament gets its act together and sorts out enabling legislation for EP elections by the 12th in itself a major challenge Hmm, I can still see May being thrawn and blocking it, preferring to go down with the Titanic take the country down with her Angry

Motheroffourdragons · 30/03/2019 00:14

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Horehound · 30/03/2019 00:15

EU will eant us to stay was long as possible so we still make our contributions. I can't see any of the eu27 vetoing that..

Motheroffourdragons · 30/03/2019 00:16

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InterchangeableEmma · 30/03/2019 00:21

Although on news night Kirst Wark mentioned Wednesday so now I am confused.

She did! It seemed to me that she was referring to a 3rd round in the indicative bots processConfused It's not something I've heard rumour of Confused

InterchangeableEmma · 30/03/2019 00:22

indicative bots votes. Autocorrect

AdaHopper · 30/03/2019 00:24

In a paper in Belgium

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
prettybird · 30/03/2019 00:26

She's a zombie so can't be killed* Sad

  • I recognise that even a joke about this could be seen as bad taste but I'm purely talking about it in the fictional context.