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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 29/03/2019 23:05

WineGin to RTB and all Westminstenders.

This would be much lonelier without you.

Motheroffourdragons · 29/03/2019 23:05

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Sostenueto · 29/03/2019 23:06

Thanks red and glad little one is getting better!Flowers

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 23:06

Brexit will cause the dissolution of the UK
Unless it genuinely is BRINO

This. In a nutshell.

OP posts:
dreichuplands · 29/03/2019 23:07

Thanks red

Peregrina · 29/03/2019 23:07

Letter insists PM upholds 2017 manifesto, meaning no long exit delay and no EU elections

The flaw here is of course, that Ulster says No. i.e. the DUP are no longer on board with TM. It's debatable whether with a hung Parliament, the manifesto is valid. We shall see what happens.

Sostenueto · 29/03/2019 23:08

Pmk

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 23:09

The manifesto also says we should leave with a deal.

Leaving with no deal, breaks the manifesto...

But let's not get picky about how the manifesto pledges were always unachievable unicorns.

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BestIsWest · 29/03/2019 23:11

Whatever happens next, I’m raising a glass to you RTB, and everyone else who has helped make sense of all this for the last 3 years.

Thank you Wine

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 23:11

red & mother & all Westministenders: Chocolate Chocolate
(Lindt not the vommy US-type choc)

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 23:13

David Allen Green@davidallengreen
If it were not for those who wanted the United Kingdom to leave the European Union, the United Kingdom would now have left the European Union.

Oh so very true.

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
When the history of all this is written there will be many heroes and villains. One man's reader will be another man's villain. Which makes life quite stimulating for those of us writing it...

The reality of history not being what happens but which MP had the best ghost writer.

OP posts:
Darkbendis · 29/03/2019 23:13

PMK

And DH and I are raising a glass too! Cheers!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 23:13

On 12 April, 2 weeks today , will we be celebrating or drowning, or looking forward to an extension of more dithering ?

OublietteBravo · 29/03/2019 23:15

Hello! I’m sure pleased to still be in the EU (for now) Wine

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 23:16

James O'Brienn@mrjamesob*

The police, derided as scaremongers by Theresa May & subjected to a years-long pay freeze as Brexit backers prospered,

tonight put themselves between her home & the vicious hooligans her ‘hostile environment’ rhetoric has helped to unleash.

We’re all lucky to have them.

Belindabelle · 29/03/2019 23:17

My nerves and liver will never survive another two weeks of this shit.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 23:17

Panicking because we won't know. If what Macron suggested is accurate. 12th April not set in stone, but at the mercy of what the EU tell us.

OP posts:
Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 23:18

Thing is, with the letter - they can write to her and say what they like but, due to their botched no-confidence vote in December, there's nothing they can do to force this. And 170 is no where near a parliamentary majority - even if it is a majority of her party. Unless they are planning on triggering a GE somehow ... and she's sort of planning that anyway ... what do they expect to achieve?
It's not even as if she is against no deal.
But even if she was - she has had no power and no authority for months now. What's one more rebellion?

It's all just more theatre and jockeying for position in the leadership bid. Monday is the day to watch. When parliament takes control again. Let's hope they do something sensible with it.

OogieMcBoogie · 29/03/2019 23:22

Guardian are reporting that Teresa is going for a fourth vote??!

jessicawessica · 29/03/2019 23:23

Don't see the point in more indicative votes.
Even if they do manage to get a majority vote on SOMETHING, the 27 EU members HAVE to agree on it.
Cannot see that happening if we just keep voting on who would like this and who would like that, etc.

tobee · 29/03/2019 23:27

🥂 chin chin, still in

EweSurname · 29/03/2019 23:30

Gabriel Pogrund
‏*@Gabriel*_Pogrund
BREAKING: Dominic Grieve loses confidence vote at Beaconsfield Conservative Association by 182 to 131 votes; paves way for deselection

TheABC · 29/03/2019 23:30

Does anyone else want to shout "it's a dead parrot!!" at the screen when you see May's deal wheeled out again?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/03/2019 23:32
Gin
Belindabelle · 29/03/2019 23:34

Well that is their loss. Dominic makes it into my fantasy cabinet.