Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 18:58

But this is a lie.

Citation needed, just because youre asserting its a lie doesnt make it so Misti, it was part of the 2017 manifesto commitments

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 18:59

And tbh I'd rather theyre rights under a Labour brexit than a a Treeza 'go home vans' May brexit

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 18:59

their not theyre *

Mistigri · 30/03/2019 19:00

Poster00 if you're supporting settled status then you are supporting a loss of rights for migrants.

Not to mention the loss of rights for UK citizens in the EU.

This is on Labour too.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:04

No what I'm supporting is no brexit at all but if I'm going to have to suffer this pure stupidity I'd rather it was a Labour version because I trust Starmer and the Labour party who want to at least tackle some of the austerity that got us here, and that has nothing to do with Corbyn as long as he continues to follow conference policy

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 19:06

What should Labour / Corbyn have done ?

Right after the ref, Corbyn was demanding May invoked A50 immediately
It added political pressure on her to invoke, before she had any plan

Not joining in on ruling out FOM
Disgraceful to see Labour jumping on the "blame the immigrants" bandwagon

Much earlier & genuine support for PV, once it as clear what a tangle the UK was in
Instead, Corbyn has tried to block it all along

Not joined the Tories in putting party before country
I totally disagree with howabout here - just because the govt has gone batshit & nasty is no reason for the Opposition to follow

The Opposition is supposed to present itself as the alternative govt, for the country to turn to when the Pm / govt become disfunctional
Corbyn never did this, so polls consitently show people prefer the govt, eeven though agreeing how incompetent they are

For a lot of the time, Corbyn has just not been there
like he's keeping his head down, waiting for the disaster after Brexit, so he can step into power
He should have been active all along, condemning the xenophobic insults coming from Cabinet ministers
Also telling May to drop her red lines to get a better Brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 19:10

I agree I'd trust Labour more after Brexit than this particularly nasty hard right Tory party, that is being infiltrated by fascists

However, that's a LONG way from saying that Labour / Corbyn's position on Brexit has been anything but pathetic & shameful so far

QueenMabby · 30/03/2019 19:10

😂😂

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 19:12

and some Lexiter Labour MPs and supporters seem to have been suspiciously supportive of batshit hard right Tory Brexiters like Redwood

We know at least 1 Labour MP has been funded by the far right
So it's not just the Tories who they've infiltrated, even if the extent is less

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:15

Right after the ref, Corbyn was demanding May invoked A50 immediately it added political pressure on her to invoke, before she had any plan

1 of the dumb moves absolutely

Not joining in on ruling out FOM
Disgraceful to see Labour jumping on the "blame the immigrants" bandwagon

Id have to read some more about that BCF so dont want to answer while not knowing

Much earlier & genuine support for PV, once it as clear what a tangle the UK was in
Instead, Corbyn has tried to block it all along

Labours stealing your brexit

Not joined the Tories in putting party before country
I totally disagree with howabout here - just because the govt has gone batshit & nasty is no reason for the Opposition to follow

I cant find fault in that we saw what happens when you directly enable the tories, I'm not saying his inaction hasnt enabled them but theres a difference albeit slight

The Opposition is supposed to present itself as the alternative govt, for the country to turn to when the Pm / govt become disfunctional
Corbyn never did this, so polls consitently show people prefer the govt, eeven though agreeing how incompetent they are

Matter of opinion, hostile press, and he's full on an idiot at times

But as usual BCF I know youre anti Corbyn but I'm talking about the party its not just Corbyn there amd Starmer is competent af. I think what would have helped would have been a better display of unity even though the Nu-Labour didnt like Corbyn, some of us oldies had to suffer through Bliar and we all know he wont be there forever, it might feel like it to some but he wont be

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:18

Corbyn's position on Brexit has been anything but pathetic & shameful so far

I do agree BCF even though it doesnt seem like it at times I just dont go for the Corbyn = Bad narrative, I give him respect for not being personal and playing the ball not the person and I think hes just not able to speak in pithy twitter soundbites that politicians these days seem to

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 19:21

I remember Corbyn when he first became an MP in 1983 and have kept a wary eye on him ever since
He was always dim & dodgy.
unfit for even the most junior office

Blair was PM when I was middle-aged
There never seemed much behind the facade
His spin soon turned into deceit and lies, even before his sexed-up dossier

Cameron looked a smarmy upper class twit from the off
no good reason why he became Tory leader, except that it came down to the last 2, he made a well-rehearsed speech - and DD would have been a far worse disaster

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 19:22

middle-aged and learned enough to be cynical

Butterymuffin · 30/03/2019 19:23

as long as he continues to follow conference policy

Continues? He's tried to ignore it as much as possible. Any backing has been of the most lukewarm variety.

we all know he wont be there forever, it might feel like it to some but he wont be

That's not a lot of comfort when the country is in crisis now. I didn't vote for him as leader but I gave him a chance, and at the time of the 2017 GE I thought he was doing very well. But since then he's been a massive disappointment and a huge let down when the country would have forced a halfway competent leader with enthusiasm. And the less well off will suffer because of it.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:24

Im so sorry everyone totally derailed the thread for a bit there

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:26

He's certainly not been brilliant I agree, but I think the PLP needed the reset button he provided because I think the Tory Lite policies which IMO the Tingers are going to follow were going to alienate the party even further and he's managed to engage 1000's of younger people into politics and that can never be a bad thing

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 19:27

My disgust with Corbyn is also due to his tolerance of anti-semitism and TRA misogyny, his long history of flirting with extremists
... and his long history of virulent anti-EU statements.
He is a lifelong Lexite

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 19:30

The Tiggers, since they have both Tory & Labour members, were never going to be Lanour Mk II
but will probably be a very broad centrist party, aiming to draw in those who are left of centre or right of centre

So tiggers will include moderate conservatives whose party has goose-stepped to the far / hard right

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:30

Has he tolerated anti-semitism I personally havent seen it, the response has been woefully slow but I wonder if thats been down to procedure, has he been a dumbass in all of that debarcle? Id be disingenuous if I said he hadnt been

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:32
bellinisurge · 30/03/2019 19:35

"Has he tolerated anti-semitism"

Watch the launch of the Shakrabati report. Some antisemitic bastard lays into Luciana Berger. Corbyn just stands there. Looked like fucking tolerating antisemitism to me.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:37

Watch the launch of the Shakrabati report. Some antisemitic bastard lays into Luciana Berger. Corbyn just stands there. Looked like fucking tolerating antisemitism to me.

Should he have launched off the stage at them? He doesnt look like much of a fighter

67chevvyimpala · 30/03/2019 19:37

You're kidding?

What luciana Berger has had to endure whilst he just stood by is indefensible!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2019 19:37

What could he have done? Is he responsible for what other people say?

RosaPalma · 30/03/2019 19:39

This is shocking and that effegies of Sadiq Kahn and Teresa May can be dragged, by the neck, around the streets of London in 2019 shows how broken Britain is. I know these people are the hard right but how the hell do you fix a society that is this fractured? Sad

twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1111920592515747840?s=19