Westminstenders: Arse about Face

[RedToothBrush]

Everything about Brexit seems to have been done wrongly.

Setting red lines to rule out a compromise

The attempt to use executive power to trigger A50, that resulted in a court case

Triggering A50 before knowing what the UK wanted

Agreeing to the backstop before any Tory MP understood the GFA

Appointing a Brexit minister before checking he understood where Dover was.

May going on about NI and pissing off the DUP before they were just about to climb down.

Having a Meaningless Vote repeatedly with a gun to head.

Contempt of Parliament and just general fucking up.

Tonight, 3 days before we were due to leave the HoC finally sat down to decide what Brexit outcomes they thought would be a good idea - more than 2years after that should have happened.

And we now we are told the meaningful vote might be may even more meaningless by being wrapped up in the illusive Withdrawal Agreement Implimentation Bill.

Farce doesn't even cover it.

Anyway Indicative Vote results incoming in approx 15 mins.

Calamapo in my view Corbyn is no better than the Tory careerists currently angling for power. Brexit could have gone so differently in the face of TM and the government's incompetence if Labour had a halfway effective leader

Cordelia: exactly, Margaret Beckett was specific this morning. She said many members seemed to view her motion as a threat to others, a stand alone proposition. She was very clear it wasn’t that at all, but a mechanism to be used in conjunction with whatever emerged as the favoured option, to be put to the people given what we all now know. As you say, the only way to be certain what “the will of the people” (asaarrrrgggghhhh!) really is NOW.
She also expressed no surprise whatsoever at last night’s results, saying reaching consensus is a process, she expected it to be gradually whittled down. So said Letwin too. Media coverage is far too black and white.

Coming to this a bit late but have we covered the fucking weasels that are BoJo, Mogg and the merry crowd of ERGers? They who previously described May's deal as a 'suicide vest' and further propaganda fear-mongering about it returning us to a vassal state and a slave state and so on, who then decided last night that they would be backing her deal afteral?

Hmmm, could that possibly be because she announced she'd resign if it went through and one of those massive ERG twats thinks they're in with a chance of leadership? Could it be?

What a bunch of self-interested fuckers! I literally cannot find words that are adequate to describe them. I despise them.

DGRossetti maybe, just maybe, if there are any upsides to this shambolic catastrophe, then it is that people are slightly better informed about the EU and its functions than they were previously. And for any Leavers reading this, I genuinely don't mean that in a superior or snobby way. I know quite a few highly intelligent and capable people in the UK (I am related to some of them) who, when asked, couldn't name the seven main EU institutions and their function and had no clue about how EU law is proposed, amended, ratified etc.

Genuine question: does the EU and its workings, feature in the UK state education system nowadays? The people I am referring to above, are in their late fifties and sixties.

Corbyn is awful.

I prefer TM to him. He’s unelectable (one hopes). He should have left when his MPs walked.

Likeliest outcome I'd suggest is that if we take part in the EP elections then those elected from the UK would keep their seats until a "Leave" date at some point in the future.

Logic, to me, would suggest that those representatives elected from the UK should keep their seats until the ability of the EP to influence our laws reaches the level agreed to in any Withdrawal Agreement (this may or may not be the same as any Leave date)

Now, just IMO of course, that really could be fun!

Oh and wanting a PV and needing one are not the same thing.

I though Margaret Beckett seemed quite surprised at the public perception of the meaning of the voting last night . That must be largely down to the media's misrepresentation or oversimplification of the process

She was very clear it wasn’t that at all, but a mechanism to be used in conjunction with whatever emerged as the favoured option

Someone (I can't remember who) made the point in parliament last night that perhaps combinations of options should be put forward to be voted on. So, for example, Clarke's proposed future relationship along side a PV for confirmation by the people. I thought it sounded like a sensible idea.

In fact, I think that particular combination could work because TIG and SNP would (probably) support it.

Cordelia: “.... So, for example, Clarke's proposed future relationship along side a PV for confirmation by the people. I thought it sounded like a sensible idea.”

You do realise yoy’ve just comprehensively disqualified yourself from ever entering Parliament? Far too sensible by half.

I read politics at uni but I've honestly learnt more about our political system in the last two years than I ever did at uni. I often think it is a shame that Tony Benn is dead, as he'd have loved this (despaired at times too) but absolutely loved it. He was so knowledgeable about the constitutional role of parliament and government.

How Britain got it so wrong on Brexit

One of the Brit experts on the EU who May should have consulted as soon as she came into office
Really insightful

He was the EU Commission’s chief negotiator for EU enlargement, i.e. comparable to Barnier's Brexit job
(So Brits in the Commission did get some plum jobs)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/27/how-britain-got-it-so-wrong-brexit-european-union?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

If the UK goes over the cliff edge on 12 April,
British officials will be back in Brussels within days pleading for talks to limit the damage.

< and before serious negotiations, the UK will have to first swallow all the main terms of the WA: backstop, exit bill etc >

And it makes sense as an option - Clarke's was the smallest majority and Beckett's had the most actual votes.

I don't see what is so problematic about EP elections, except that both main parties suspect they'd get hammered at the polls.

I'm gonna take that as a compliment langrish!

Margo even worse was hearing JRM say, when asked about the next leader, that 'today was a day not for talking about leadership, but for giving thanks to the pm for her dutiful commitment' or words to that effect. I'm no fan of TM but my stomach was turned! He is so patently insincere, not to mention odious, why does he hold such sway?

I read the original plan was for only the 2 most popular / least unpopular options would go forward on Monday,
for one head to head vote

It was Hobhouse, Cordelia. And Joanna Cherry pointed out during her speech that anyone who voted against no deal should have no problem voting for her motion as well, even if they prefer another option as they’re not mutually exclusive. But I’m guessing sensible options are out of the question because the SNP may have done something before a fair number of its MPs were even born.

Are there even SNP MPs who were in their seats 40 years ago?

Agree that EP elections are going to be needed for any outcome other than No Deal.

Thanks for your help BCF. DH is convinced that remain would win a PV (I’m less sure, but he doesn’t really get that there is a sizeable chunk of the population who want to leave the EU at any cost), so if a PV is on the cards, we’ll stay until we know the outcome. So, we’ll know whether a PV is happening by 12 April, which is not too far off!

Yes, I heard those words leave his mouth too Pegs. He is a disgrace, the absolute worst kind of politician; scheming, manipulative and in it for his own gain.

Media reporting has been appalling from last night with, it seems, a clear agenda of saying that the WA must pass as nothing else has gained a majority. This was never the point - the point was to flush out the top three or four over which people could then get to work on a decent compromise. It was just part one of a bigger exercise. I hope that Oliver Letwin et al get the chance to shout that from the rooftops. The Today programme left me utterly enraged at the bias (and I don't usually get that exercised about the BBC).

I don't see what is so problematic about EP elections, except that both main parties suspect they'd get hammered at the polls.

Both main parties are led by people who think Brexit should happen and who know that having EP elections three years after the referendum will be portrayed as a Betrayal of Brexit by the True Believers.

DGRossetti maybe, just maybe, if there are any upsides to this shambolic catastrophe, then it is that people are slightly better informed about the EU and its functions than they were previously.

Nope. Can't see it. Just look at the speed limiter frothing.

I'd argue all it's done is increase the gulf between those that chose to educate themselves (this thread) and those that are carrying on as they always have - copy of the Sun/Express/Mirror in one hand, their favourite facebook sites in the other, and the state broadcaster in the background. There's a reason these people weren't really politically engaged, and it's nothing to do with the availability of information.