Westminstenders: Arse about Face

[RedToothBrush]

Everything about Brexit seems to have been done wrongly.

Setting red lines to rule out a compromise

The attempt to use executive power to trigger A50, that resulted in a court case

Triggering A50 before knowing what the UK wanted

Agreeing to the backstop before any Tory MP understood the GFA

Appointing a Brexit minister before checking he understood where Dover was.

May going on about NI and pissing off the DUP before they were just about to climb down.

Having a Meaningless Vote repeatedly with a gun to head.

Contempt of Parliament and just general fucking up.

Tonight, 3 days before we were due to leave the HoC finally sat down to decide what Brexit outcomes they thought would be a good idea - more than 2years after that should have happened.

And we now we are told the meaningful vote might be may even more meaningless by being wrapped up in the illusive Withdrawal Agreement Implimentation Bill.

Farce doesn't even cover it.

Anyway Indicative Vote results incoming in approx 15 mins.

My (Labour) MP was Yes,yes,yes,abstain,yes,no,no,abstain ?

My MP would happily vote for paddling towards the US so that we can leave Europe completely - if that was what Theresa wanted. Ambition before common sense here.

My SNP MP voted Abstain, Yes, Abstain, Abstain, Yes, No, Abstain, No

FaFoutis:

tu gradatim excipiantur qui omnimodam wanker

Maybe?

I agree with Mother that the SNP were viewed as "Tartan Tories". In the 60s, 70s and 80s, they probably were to a greater or lesser extent (but there again, old and "rural" Scotland was indeed old-fashioned conservative, small c) but in the 90s, they definitely swung to the left. Labour kept up the trope of "Tartan Tories" for as long as they could - until so many Labour voters defected to them that they could no longer realistically make the claim.

It's a broad church though, including many (like dh) who will only vote SNP for as long as they need to in order to achieve Independence.

The 1979 Vote of No Confidence bringing in the years of Thatcherism is often thrown at them, yet even Jim Callaghan acknowledges it wasn't the SNP that brought them down, it was his own Labour MPs , voting for the threshold in the devolution vote (and iirc that controversial threshold was put forward by a rebel Labour MP ) They'd been warned by the SNP that it would mean the end of their Confidence and Supply arrangement.

“ClashCityRocker

The amount of people I'm coming across who still think we're leaving tomorrow is both worrying and slightly bemusing.”

It is. Almost as worrying as sister’s elderly neighbour who thinks we left in 2016. Laugh? Cry? Both? Wtf knows.

Corbyn's tweet about 'here's what the SNP were doing 40 years ago' seems so childish.

Meanwhile in the here and now Jezza? Any thoughts?

“Peregrina

.....

Forgive my cynicism - he knows he will have to fight an election in just over three years at the latest, so is getting his excuses in first.”

And he didnt write it of course, one of six possible replies prepared by the local machine, to be despatched depending on the view of the correspondent.

Aw just got a thank you email from Richard Ashworth for thanking him for his response to Donald Tusk.

Could I ask those who are against the WA why that is?

not sure if anyone can be bothered, but it would be great to hear your views on it

The amount of people I'm coming across who still think we're leaving tomorrow is both worrying and slightly bemusing.

It was no joke back in 2016 that if the UK simply carried on as normal, a lot of people would never have noticed again and believed we'd left.

The real loser from this fucking-gawdawful-there-really-aren't-enough-expletives-in-any-langauge-to-fully-express-my-fury-referendum is the fact that in future, a lot of politicians will be able to happily ignore popular opinion because the public have demonstrated they really can't give a fuck about anything. For every signature on that petition, and excluding the people who obviously wouldn't sign it, how many people are there like the ones in the PPs statement ?

Meanwhile, in another thread on AIBU someone has spotted private Emergency Ambulances prowling the streets to no real comment. That's how it works. When was A&E outsourced, and are the crew of that ambulance paid less, the same, or more than their NHS equivalents ? I wonder if their uniform has a pocket for a card reader ?

TalkinPaece

Yes! Can’t get passata for love nor money here and tinned sardines have disappeared completely from Lidl.
People are going to be eating a lot of tomato and sardine pasta if by some miracle it all works out

Even if , as a result of the red lines shifting through the indicative votes, the EU agrees to allow Brexit date to be shifted again , then as a prerequisite we have to have legislated by 12 April to hold EP elections.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

Even if , as a result of the Indicative votes, a PV is agreed so that the UK asks the EU to delay Brexit date again , then as a prerequisite we have to have legislated by 12 April to hold EP elections.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

Even if , as a result of the indicative votes, Revoke is agreed, then we still have to legislate by 12 April to hold EP elections

A basic question, apologies, but I’m unclear.
TM said she would resign if the WA passes.
So if it doesn’t, she won’t?

Ken Clarke's CU + alignment to SM sounds very like the WA backstop made permanent:

it means copying over all the SM trade regs, because the EU insist on a level playing field
but does give as close to frictionless trade as we can get without actually joining the SM

So NI would probably still have slightly different rules, because "as frictionless as possible" won't go down well there

@inaquandry123 - yes, I'm in Alan Duncan's constituency.

54% Leave but he's got an unassailable majority. Need to mither him about PV vote now!

Tatiana sorry if it's been posted before, but how does one contact Donald? His words were much appreciated in this household yesterday.

I am one of those people who prepares as if we were leaving tomorrow. I have not got the energy to change the date in my head, and it is easier just to prep for tomorrow than an unspecified future date.

as a result of the red lines shifting through the indicative votes,

Red lines have gone nowhere, until Theresa May says so.

A basic question, apologies, but I’m unclear. TM said she would resign if the WA passes. So if it doesn’t, she won’t?

That's my take. As even Piers Morgans spotted, that's now perfect staging for a no-deal carry-on-Theresa government. Because - as has been the case since day one - no one, but no one wants to be PM after Theresa May. They all want to be the one after that.

They are of course free to try and oust May by .... oh, hang on. They can't. They can also .... oh, no, they can't do that either. Of course there's always .... oh no, that won't work either.

The only way you might be able to get rid of Theresa May if she doesn't want to go, is to expel her from the Tory party. I'd be curious if anyone else can think of another way ?

Pegsinarow Here is Tatiana's link:
www.consilium.europa.eu/en/contact/general-enquiries/send-message/

You know I really think that someone ought to point out to our MPs that for the CU or CU + SM or SM, the so hated backstop will still be required because the WA will not be changed. Those options are in the PD only.

Labour don’t really hate the WA , just the present PD. based on the existing red lines.

If we go for no deal then it appears looking at the tariff arrangement that the govt posted last week preparing for no deal, that looks to me very much like a border at the Irish Sea. This has been planned to continue to observe the GFA.

So really if you really hate the idea of any backstop, for preservation of the union, the best solution is actually Revoke!

Here endeth the lesson. I wish Tusk would say this too.

assassina.....??

Pretty If we were given a further extension, but then Revoked after 12 April,
we would have to legislate to hold EP elections immediately, or be taken to the ECJ for breach of rules.

It would be a mess - we'd piss off everyone by probably delaying the date on which the EP could start work AND some countries having to give up the extra MEP seats they had gained, possibly after they'd been elected FGS

It would still be better, for the UK at least, than Brexit

but it is another reason the EU need to be very cautious about extending beyond 12 April

• the potential for the UK to bugger up the EP - by blundering stupidity or by design - is significant.

btw, this would hold for a PV which resulted in Remain, but at least the EU could plan for this contingency in advance

MarshaBradyo
The WA is a 'plan to leave' so once the transition period is over the UK will have lost all the benefits of being in the EU.
During transition the UK pays 'subs' but loses representation in the EP, but has to follow any new legislation.
IF the UK had a really good plan and good negotiators then leaving may not be too bad, although losing SM/CU will totally stuff UK industry (including finance) so what the UK does to compensate for these losses is everyone's guess.
The WA, without good negotiation is a 'medium term' death. With good negotiation there is some possibility of 'stability' in 10 or more years time but the UK would likely be ranked nearer Spain or similar 'mid European' GDP as the UK has insufficient natural resources and tariffs will bias business to the EU not the UK. Cosying up to the USA or Russia would be as a very minor player.
Crash out no deal is of course 'quick death' which unlike the WA versions is likely to be literal in some cases due to 'stuff' that hasn't been thought about.