Westminstenders: Arse about Face

[RedToothBrush]

Everything about Brexit seems to have been done wrongly.

Setting red lines to rule out a compromise

The attempt to use executive power to trigger A50, that resulted in a court case

Triggering A50 before knowing what the UK wanted

Agreeing to the backstop before any Tory MP understood the GFA

Appointing a Brexit minister before checking he understood where Dover was.

May going on about NI and pissing off the DUP before they were just about to climb down.

Having a Meaningless Vote repeatedly with a gun to head.

Contempt of Parliament and just general fucking up.

Tonight, 3 days before we were due to leave the HoC finally sat down to decide what Brexit outcomes they thought would be a good idea - more than 2years after that should have happened.

And we now we are told the meaningful vote might be may even more meaningless by being wrapped up in the illusive Withdrawal Agreement Implimentation Bill.

Farce doesn't even cover it.

Anyway Indicative Vote results incoming in approx 15 mins.

If there is no agreement on any kind of deal would that not cancel out Labour's PV option, as that is dependent on any deal being agreed ? I too wish there had been more compromise from the Lib Dems and Tiggers, I fear we are heading for accidental no deal or a hard brexiteer as PM.

I looked up my (Tory) MP's full votes from last night and not only did he vote YES to No Deal, he also voted NO to everything else.

He is beneath contempt. We're in a SE commuter town that isn't full of rich people, put it that way. Voted 55% to leave but imho people round here need saving from themselves and he isn't helping. So disgusted with him, especially as he appears yet again in the local paper this week posturing smugly about the local hospital closure.

And yes I think the customs union would work. I know there are some difficulties with it, but it more or less (not completely) sorts out the Irish border issue.

I think if we stay in the customs union we don't lose our access to current EU trade deals but we don't get new ones automatically if the EU negotiates them. So there are downsides, but fewer than leaving without a deal at all.

I assume the EFTA idea was voted down because it had some unrealistic element attached to it? It was by far the least popular option, which surprised me.

I've said this before, but I think if went back to the EU before 12 April and said we'd like to stay in the customs union please they'd be quite happy with that and everyone can move on.

woman Passing the WA with some sort of PD is not academic if the alternative is No deal
i.e. if we can't get Revoke

The fury over the backstop is that it is legally binding,
so they can't trash that without being taken to the International court and also being an international pariah.

• The GFA never contemplated Brexit, so doesn't legally specify no harder border, but the backstop does.

That's why the EU / Ireland are so insistent the backstop stays as it is - it's the one bit of the WA that actually is binding

The PD isn't binding, so the ERG could dump NI into an NI-only backstop and then go for Canada+ for GB

Again, who would have thought, in December, that we would have had a cross party collaboration in HOC, messy as it is, in which PV and CU would supersede WA in popularity?

Add in ERG eating itself and the messages of support from the highest authority in EU.

Stir in the 1-2m strong EU march and our petition which is as large as several EU countries.

Most of us who have helped campaign for this have had to compromise in terms of traditional political parties and other factors.

As well as the divisions being stoked by this brexit, the need for compromise is feeding through to parliament too, slowly.

I fear we are heading for accidental no deal

There's no such thing as accidental in this context. MPs have two weeks to agree something Everyone has been sneery about the results of yesterday's vote but actually this was only the first stage. They've found the options that were most popular so now is the time to refine those ideas and bring them back to the House for a "run-off" vote.

However, even Canada+ and an NI-only backstop - after probably a much extended transition -
is vastly preferable to the total Year Zero chaos of No Deal.

My Labour front bench MP, who is a remainer, voted for the more progressive motions yesterday but abstained from revoke or any referenda.
I cannot decide if she genuinely thinks there are only leavers in her constituency and she can safely ignore us, or whether she is now a leaver. Either way she lost my vote a long time ago.

Why are headlines so negative about the indicative votes? Some of the motions had support and less resistance than the WA. Am I wrong to think this?

havingtochangeusername again or anyone else who can help with these questions. Has it been agreed how the votes on Monday will run ie will it be a ranking system ? Does the speaker decide how many will be chosen ? Do you think May's deal will be included ?

My Labour MP pretty much voted for all the sensible options including revoke and seems to be a decent constituency MP. Unfortunately as Corbyn seems to view every vote cast for Labour as an endorsement of him personally I still don't know who I could vote for in a potential GE.

Korabora and others with good MPs, you do need to vote for those MPs if you like and approve them.
If you don’t, you risk good and decent MPs being forced out of Parliament and replaced by the Party-liners.
Parties will say that’s what the electorate want because they’re the ones getting the votes.

My MP voted Yes to No Deal and the Standstill Agreement (Fysh proposal) and No to everything else. He's an ERG hardliner who has already replied to my email saying that the constituency voted Leave so he's enacting The Will of The People.

I think if we don't agree by tomorrow then 12th April is BDay

Yes that's right - unless, in the interim MPs come up with a plan for something sensible and then we can go to the EU and say this is the new plan but we need more time, can we have more time please? And Tusk has clearly said we should be given that time.

Of course, that then means EP elections unless the plan for something sensible is relatively easy to slot into the process to leave on 23rd May.

My MP voted Yes to No Deal and the Standstill Agreement (Fysh proposal) and No to everything else. angry He's an ERG hardliner who has already replied to my email saying that the constituency voted Leave so he's enacting The Will of The People

So the same as mine, except my constituency voted narrowly to remain.

PS no idea how the votes will work on Monday - just my guess as to how it could work - take the ones with the most support from yesterday and vote on them again. Preferably without whips or abstentions, everyone has to vote for something.

That must be even more frustrating having.

I feel sorry for DD1. She's a history teacher and she'll get to live this Groundhog Day nightmare over and over again for years to come.

How will they agree where the cut off should be for the selection of Mondays choices? Wish they'd agreed top four or top three yesterday when deciding the format for IVs

I'm totally confused. Surely Margaret Beckett's proposal is irrelevant until there's a withdrawal bill? So how does it affect what withdrawal bill is chosen?

And shouldn't May's deal be one of the ones considered, so we can see how many would vote for that now?

My MP voted Yes to No Deal and the Standstill Agreement
So did mine, much to my astonishment. He had been a remainer.

I have no faith in getting anything agreed by the 12th. That's 2 weeks tomorrow. What can they achieve in 2 weeks that they haven't been able to achieve in 3 years?

We are going to end up just as unprepared for crashing out as we would if it were tomorrow.

This is Alyn Smith's speech from the EU Parliament. I am finding threads so hard to catch up with completely, sorry if posted before.

I must admit the use of the light for someone returning home caught me. We now live on the edge of a small town, near countryside. I put the outside porch light on for OH as he cycles home. Or child returning from school. Getting lighter now, so won't need to do it soon.

www.joe.ie/news/watch-scottish-meps-speech-brexit-eu-well-received-663470

Soz for side bar.

No Elenade - I think you're on the right track. In the cold light of day I think a PV and CU type deal are the ones to watch, and the number of abstentions on revoke also mean it could be a runner in a crunch situation.

Yup, this is how I see it. I think the problem is that the process was not really explained before the votes happened as it all and to be done so quickly that people are looking at it with a win/lose mentality rather than part of a road to finding an option that might work.

I still think there is a pretty big change of no deal, but I'm feeling more hopeful than I was a couple of weeks ago that we might end up with a soft SM/CU brexit or even (off the back of a PV) remain. We still have a long way to go though.

My MP voted against everything.

That quote from an anonymous MP on the last thread about the fact that Leave was never supposed to have won, is why we are where we are. There was no planning done for a scenario that wasn't supposed to happen. I think secretly most MP's know this, that leave wasn't supposed to win, but are too cowardly to say it out loud to the public.