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Brexit

Leavers, I'm a leaver... are you out there

356 replies

BurpsandHustles · 26/03/2019 20:43

I know this thread will get trolled and spammed with the usual suspects demanding answers from us.

But I'm hoping any leavers out there could ignore them and tell me how their feeling.

Right now I'm wondering who the hell is speaking out for us? It's gone very quiet....

There is some momentum from pro Europe voices... but aside from a damp squib march from farage..does anyone else think it's gone eerily quiet!!

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 27/03/2019 07:47

Sorry for being so mean by not falling in with everything Leave said.

InfiniteSheldon · 27/03/2019 08:10

I'm with you OP. The only solace I have is that Remainers are still a very vocal minority.

Their control of the media and Parliament has meant the Remain campaign never gave up whilst Leavers believed the job was done. Remainers have written the narrative, reinforced it and now truly believe it.

Starting with Project Fear and an abuse of tax payers money to fund their campaign through to blocking a WTO rules orderly departure we have faced a tsunami.

I don't honestly think we will Leave. A cabal of white men intent on feathering their own nests have taken over Europe and now those of us who recognise and remember why Superstates never work are the thick racist old with no rights.
Every abuser with power turns the tables and accuses his victims of his worst behaviours. Remainers have proved themselves the same.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/03/2019 08:17

I voted remain a year ago and now im an abuser with power?

Alrighty

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/03/2019 08:17

Remain campaign never gave up whilst Leavers believed the job was done

A bit like when we joined in the 70's but the opposite way round?

Yep agree with that

TalkinPaece · 27/03/2019 08:20

sheldon
blocking a WTO rules orderly departure
Could you provide a link to show how that would have worked?
Especially for the services sector Grin

InfiniteSheldon · 27/03/2019 08:22

No not interested in assuaging your imagined angst. A government intent on leaving could have achieved this research it yourself.

Ciwirocks · 27/03/2019 08:23

Can I ask the leavers how they feel about Northern Ireland? That is the issue with Brexit that I just can’t get over. I can’t see how a solution can be found to that which everyone is happy with.

TalkinPaece · 27/03/2019 08:23

A government intent on leaving could have achieved this research it yourself.
I have, hence why I asked about the WTO and the service sector Wink

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/03/2019 08:24

Who's got angst?

I haven't

HazardGhost · 27/03/2019 08:24

But that's the leaver frustration infinite remainers are not a vocal minority. That's the problem. Remainers were everywhere to begin with Scotland, NI, Gibraltar it was only ever England and Wales that voted out. And now Wales would vote remain and England would vote remain.

Leave won but two years later who wants it except a minority? There's no enthusiasm. The gov has spent millions on it meanwhile we've all been suffering more and told there's no magic money tree for real problems.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 27/03/2019 08:25

People from previously quiet streets are now dealing with knife crime, gang violence, children in the street all night, toileting issues and fly tipping in The street. It's easy to say it's a minority until you either live with it or are tasked to solve it .

As someone who does live with it, I completely disagree with you. For a start toiletting in the street is nothing new, neither are children in the street at night. The knife crime and groups of children organising knife fights are, as is getting your head kicked in for no particular reason. Almost all of this is caused by white British people who lived here all their lives though. So you can take your racist bollocks elsewhere.

I can’t begin to fathom how the cuts to the police and other public services that is going to follow Brexit is going to help any of this.

TulipsTulipsTulips · 27/03/2019 08:26

Leaver here, still a leaver. Everyone I know who voted leave would still vote leave.

TalkinPaece · 27/03/2019 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/03/2019 08:29

I do wish though that these threads could be done without throwing insults around

Some posters seem to manage it

BloggersNet · 27/03/2019 08:35

Lots of vocal leavers in parliament. Farage planning a new party for leavers. Some mainstream media outlets are still strongly supporting leave. I think the issue is that leave is now the default position and remainers are protesting against it which obviously makes news.

Random18 · 27/03/2019 08:35

@Infinite what media is biased to remain?

The BBC? nah
The Daily Express ?
The Dail Mail?
Telegraph?
Sun?

Ok we do have the Guardian and the independent.

Even my local paper seems to be anti EU.

1tisILeClerc · 27/03/2019 08:36

{I'm with you OP. The only solace I have is that Remainers are still a very vocal minority.
Their control of the media}

The Guardian, Independent, and SKY are relatively neutral.
The BBC has a strong 'leave' slant (or are just a day or two late) and the Express, Mail, Telegraph, Sun are rabid 'leave' and if you can take their 'comments' posts as representative of their 'readership' then almost totally unhinged.

InfiniteSheldon
You may choose to believe the bollocks you wrote a couple of posts ago, but you are one of a rapidly dwindling number that might believe it. There are no politicians that truly believe in their heart of hearts that leaving the UK will significantly benefit the majority of UK citizens. What they say and do is of course quite different.

1tisILeClerc · 27/03/2019 08:43

{Even my local paper seems to be anti EU.}
Most 'local' papers are actually owned by one of the main newspaper groups, one of the ones with a strong 'leave' slant.

HotpotLawyer · 27/03/2019 08:44

“all the bad stuff has been a case of remainers saying bad things would happen and then making sure bad things happen.”

Do you honestly think that Remainers worked to make sure that the City is emptying itself to Dublin and car manufacturers are retreating to Europe with massive loss of jobs? Confused

I am a Remainer but believer in democracy. Had a Leave Leader emerged to take control of the process and ensure that things were set up so that we could thrive after Brexit I could have hit behknd that.

Tne truth seems to be that the Leave politicians were great at stirring things up as back seat drivers but have been loathe to take the driving seat as they are too cowardly to face the troubled transition times.

Plus Leavers has no actual plan, either.

Leavers and remainers have been let down.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/03/2019 08:46

Leavers and remainers have been let down

Yep

chocolategivesmehives · 27/03/2019 08:48

Hellen, sorry, this post will be quite long, but I would like to give you my reasons for being a remainer. I did quite a bit of research before the vote. My Dear Old Dad had always been a bit of a Eurosceptic, and as he was an intelligent, politically aware man, I was interested in his views, and why he was a bit torn on whether we should be leaving the EU or not.

My lovely Dad voted to remain in the EU 8 days before he died. He did his research, he looked at both sides of the argument, he thought a lot about how it would affect his grandchildren, and he voted remain.

His reasons were mostly economic. He remembered what a basket case the UK was in the early 1970's (the 'sick man' of Europe), 3 days weeks, power cuts etc. He also remembered 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland, and realised that the UK leaving the EU would impact the GFA. And of course, he remembered WWII, and believed the EU would stop another major European conflict.

He was from an old northern industrial area, his father was a miner, but he was aware from the seventies that the UK manufacturing base, the mining, shipbuilding, steel industries etc., would be unable to compete with emerging markets, and that successive governments were doing nothing to reskill the labour force.

My own reasons for voting remain were as follows:
I'm old enough to have been at work before we had the customs union and free movement of goods. I worked for a company which imported building materials from European countries. It was a right royal pain in the arse. Goods were always being held up during some point in the import process. There was no 'Just in time' process. We had to maintain stocks of product in warehouses/goods yards to ensure we could continue to work, which was costly and time consuming.
I know it’s unfashionable to listen to the opinions of experts, but tbh I’d rather listen to the opinion of an economist/scientist/oncologist than some conspiracy theorist on the net; most experts think leaving the EU will be an unmitigated disaster.
We are part of one of the biggest trading blocs in the world. As part of the EU, we have a certain amount of clout when it comes to negotiating deals. We can demand trade deals with clauses about the environment, and workers rights etc. If we go it alone, so that, as Leavers suggest, we can negotiate our own, better trade deals starting with the Commonwealth, I think we'll very quickly find there is no Commonwealth any more. The USA, China and Japan are not going to roll over and give us the trade deals most beneficial to us. They’re going to negotiate hard for the trade deals that benefit them, possible opening our markets to products which are substandard and unsafe. We are already flooded with cheap Chinese plastic tat. It will likely only get worse.

Most of our former colonies don't like us very much - we didn't treat them terribly well, did we? I can't imagine places like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Rwanda etc, being quick to agree to trade deals. We are still exploiting workers in these countries now - garment workers in Bangladesh, cotton growers in India. Also, Many Commonwealth countries already have very tight trade deals with China, who are exploiting their wealth, mineral resources etc, and partnering huge infrastructure projects. Even Australia, Canada etc , who might not despise us quite as much, are in thrall to China.

People ask what the EU did for us - to me, the major part is the customs union and ease of trade. If you type 'What the EU did for us' into any search engine you'll come up with screeds of information.

We were on holiday in the Black Mountains in Wales a few years ago, and spent a day in The Valleys - and were amazed at the number of local projects in receipt of EU funding - the information boards were everywhere. I was consequently astounded when Wales voted to leave the EU.

I think a lot of people view pre-EU days as some kind of British (and of course they mean UK, not GB) utopia – kids in summer dresses and shorts and t-shirts drinking lashings of ginger beer, morris dancing on the village green etc etc. Our country was never like that, and the trouble we find ourselves in now, NHS on the brink of disaster, education rapidly going to hell etc has nothing to do with the EU – that is down to our own government’s incompetencies. It will get much worse when businesses start to leave, when we lose the financial service companies which have been propping up our economy, and what little manufacturing we still have decides it’s easier to trade from within the EU and ups sticks and moves to Dusseldorf or Krakow.

There are myriad more reasons, but this is already an essay. Sorry about your little girl – you had far more important things to worry about than a vote to leave/remain in the EU.

Songsofexperience · 27/03/2019 09:02

chocolate
Thanks for taking the time to type all this! It's always worth repeating those reasons in a calm clear manner as you have just done!
Unfortunately many people choose to actively ignore them because it's easier to focus anger on a scapegoat than it is to address the real issues.
Leavers who are not the super wealthy crooks poised to profit from a bad brexit have already felt ignored by successive governments. Leave told them: 'the problem was never us it's THEM. We'll sort everything for you dears.' How comforting, right?
Now you tell them there is no solace in Leave. Do you think they will take the message well? There goes their last bit of hope (in their eyes).

Figmentofmyimagination · 27/03/2019 09:03

OP your big problem is that ‘leaving” was about rejecting something - not building something new. It’s quite easy to persuade groups with disparate agendas to coalesce enthusiastically around a common idea they don’t like - especially if you appeal to emotion and identity, but it’s much harder (impossible) to organise them to move forward in favour of something. Moving forward was never part of the leave marketing plan unfortunately.

‘Will of the people’-based revolutions (which is what Brexit is) don’t usually end well for this very reason. You harness the crowd to win because you are clever and smooth talking, but then you realise that the ‘crowd’ want wildly different things - and none of them are what you want.

Leave is a mixture of genuine liberal idealism about sovereignty, authoritarianism, radical free market libertarianism and plain old racism. It’s not surprising that finding a way forward is impossible.

BrexitBingoGenerator · 27/03/2019 09:03

Thank you for starting this thread- I hope it doesn’t end up in another bunfight.

I’ve come to the conclusion that leave and remain are like two opposing and equal forces- they just cancel each other out. (I hope I have got that physics right!)

It does seem like a lot of the steam has drifted away from the Leave sails, but with something so emotional, it’s perhaps not surprising that everyone on that side is running out of puff.

Because, while all this back and forth is going on, real life is still happening- people are still being conned by universal credit, public services are still stretched and everyone has a whole load of other worries heaped on top, as @hellenbackagain has shown.

This must be why the concept of having a supermajority has been thought of. It hasn’t been applied in this referendum though- to all our detriment!

I’m not a leaver, so this is not the thread for me. However, I hope for all our sakes that someone can find a breakthrough soon before we all lose heart completely!

Songsofexperience · 27/03/2019 09:09

The only constructive solution would be revoke + GE but with different leaders on both sides. Clean slate.