Westminstenders: Pragmatism versus Purity

[RedToothBrush]

There is one question for the HoC in the next week and that's will you persue pragmatism or purity?

May looks as if she is being sidelined after a backbench withdrawal of support, the DUPs withdrawal of support and an omminous silence eminenating from the Cabinet.

Her speech on Thursday where she pitted the people against parliament has been her last mistake. She's now a danger to the country's stability and the safety of MPs.

The priority for the week is to pass the SI to change the UK exit date from 29th March to the EU's new terms.

After that, with May's deal stuffed due to lack of support and a Bercow ruling it looks like we are facing some sort of indicative free vote. This seems to be being supported by ministers in government regardless of leave or remain.

The prospect of a Tory Leader Election contest looms. It remains to seen if that can happen in the next three weeks with so much else at stake. But this is the Tory party.

The penny seems to be finally dropping about the reality of leaving the EU and how we leave the EU. A week before we were due to go. The incompetence of Parliament is laid bare in all its glorious full scale.

Sorry, DG, I read your longer reply after posting. I think it makes more sense now? Still - why don’t they just make sure the SI is tabled in due time to avoid having to essentially backdate legislation and all the potential problems that brings?
Don’t answer, I know why...

Looks dependent on HoC being allowed to debate and vote on it. Wouldn't the government simply not allow that?

The House Of Lords have a plan to revoke Brexit. Maybe better informed minds than mine could look at it.

First flaw is that any bill needs to pass before the HoC. If it can't make it out of the blocks there, it's DOA.

It might also be the last thing the House of Lords does.

Speak to your MP.

finalsay.app/

Soy mind is not big enough to cope with all this.

My understanding is that if the Govt are brought down then it’s no Deal.

But if the EU have the power to extend for us would it be possible to bring down govt and the EU extend and then we can deal with our own internal laws as soon as we have a govt?

Or does the UK need to agree to the extension also?

Probably not something that will happen but it’s becoming more and more clear that current Pm and some ministers do not consider Parliament as sovereign and will against it

Still - why don’t they just make sure the SI is tabled in due time to avoid having to essentially backdate legislation and all the potential problems that brings?

Above my pay grade.

All I remember is when Workfare was challenged (working for benefits) (there's a pattern here) the government insisted it was lawful. Then they lost the first court case, but appealed. They lost the second. And appealed. They pushed it to the Supreme Court. And lost.

With nowhere else to go, there were thousands of claimants due backdated benefit payments. Which goes against the Tory ethos of punishing the poor. How to stop ? Quick pass a law retrospectively making Workfare lawful.

Remember, in Tory Britain respect for the law is a moveable feast, and generally not applied to the ruling classes. That Norman attitude didn't die.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(Reilly)_v_Secretary_of_State_for_Work_and_Pensions

Ive just sent my MP a voice message!

I'll try and link the website...

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584" target="_blank">https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Of course in the Big Picture, parliament is only part - but it's the supreme bit. Also worth noting that parliament is actually the Commons and Lords together. There's also the Executive and the Legislature. All under the sovereign.

I wonder if it makes more sense to Americans ? They seem to learn a lot more about their political system in school than we do here.

The most important question facing parliament in the next few days is whether they have the sense to do what's proper, even if a rump of thickie citizens can't understand it as being proper ? Because if the answer is "no", democracy is fucked.

Oh sorry, a pp already posted it!

I've traced DH's roots back to parts of the Plantagenets....his 28th great grandmother was Countess of Anjou.

Mine were all poor

My understanding is that if the Govt are brought down then it’s no Deal.

But if the EU have the power to extend for us would it be possible to bring down govt and the EU extend and then we can deal with our own internal laws as soon as we have a govt?

My understanding is that the UK has to agree an extension, and that a longer extension would only be granted if legislation was in place to allow for EP elections. So, based on my (limited) knowledge of UK politics, if the government was brought down through say a NC vote, May would stay PM for two more weeks, so past 12 April. If during those two weeks she doesn’t legislate for EP elections (as a last fuck you to the country), it’s game over. A member state without representation would seriously destabilise the legitimacy of the Europeans Parliament and render it effectively useless, as any decision could be challenged quite easily.

IF May made sure EP elections happened, the EU27 would probably agree to a long extensions of 9 months to 2 years or so.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!
And thank you, DG, for being so patient with your explanations, I really appreciate it.

And thank you, DG, for being so patient with your explanations, I really appreciate it.

If you can't explain it. You can't understand it.

(Turns to Leavers)

So, what's this "Brexit" all about then ?

Whereismymojo:
Your DH might be entitled to a French passport though the 'bloodline ' rule

Thanks - I am just so concerned about this Pm and the lengths that she will go to.

If we go out with No Deal because Parliament supports it then fine. But she is playing too many dangerous games

So.

A GE then?

Well it’s not fine - but it would be democratic

Speaking of parliament - what time does the shit show du jour kick off? 2:30?

May I ask a favour of any or all of the knowledgeable people on this thread? Is it possible for you to put together a précis of what is predicted to happen in the days and weeks immediately after a no deal Brexit? Or can you point me to a resource that outlines this? Thanks.

Statement by TM in half an hour. Europe ready for no deal. Looks like something has changed in TM camp.

ps - I mean I've obviously read about the possible consequences in many many places (and watched the 3 Blokes videos), but can I find a summary somewhere?

Statement in the HoC? Just so I know which channel to turn on

The guardian reporting third meaningful vote to take place tomorrow

I doubt the EU finalising their prep has any relation to what TM is doing.

Let's hope she's realised she needs to stop the shit show and revoke.

May I ask a favour of any or all of the knowledgeable people on this thread? Is it possible for you to put together a précis of what is predicted to happen in the days and weeks immediately after a no deal Brexit? Or can you point me to a resource that outlines this? Thanks.

I think the short answer is "no" .

Not only are we seeing how woefully prepared our MPs are, we are also seeing how many "journalists" have been getting by for years with an ungraded A level in PolEcon. I don't think it's too arrogant (and if it is I have every confidence someone will point it out ) to say that these Westminstenders threads are - thanks to @RedToothBrush - one of the more informed discourses in the forum world. Which makes MNs repeated carpet-brushing of them all the more .... odd. You'd think they'd have highlighted them as one of the beacons of analysis in Media, rather than embarrassedly moving them because some snowflakes don't like reality ?????