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Brexit

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 09:55

John Bercow has stepped in. We've long made the point, that the position of Speaker was utterly crucial to the outcome of Brexit. However this ruling was long warned as a possibility. It was somewhat overlooked by all (including me).

We are now faced with the bizarre narrative that May was just about to be able to get her deal through, and it's now simply Bercow who has tried to sabotage Brexit.

The reality is that his ruling has the effect of making BOTH no deal And a lengthy extension (possibly with a PV) much more likely.

May now has to embrace one of these option (by accident or design) or find a way to substantially change the terms of her deal as put to the Commons, either through negotiation with the EU or bolting something significantly different to her deal like a variation of the Kyle Amendment (a PV based on her deal or remain). Or find a majority to overturn the standing order that Bercow has cited as the reason for his block.

This block also might apply to the Benn amendment (indicative votes) or other PV amendments. Which could equally be problematic going forward.

In reality Bercow has upped the stakes and forced May to do something meaningful rather than simply holding a gun to MPs heads to vote. Hurrah for parliamentary Sovereignty and limiting the abuse of power of the executive!?!

It's a completely neutral move in practice. The HoC has tied itself in knots with how it's voted for political reason rather than for the national interest. The British Constitution has just stood up for itself. Bercow is just a useful target to blame for the incompetence of the entire house for the last 3 years.

The billion pound question this morning is where does that now leave us?

The honest answer is I'm damned if I know.

Maybe the EU will come up with a magic bullet for May, maybe the Cabinet can come up with a magic bullet, maybe May will take the political magic bullet of a long extension or revocation or maybe we'll just all shoot ourselves in the head and foot with no deal.

I have no idea.

10 days to go.

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem
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Thread gallery
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citroenpresse · 19/03/2019 17:22

Given the 20-25 ERG ultras, surely the numbers will never be there for the existing WA deal, even with the DUP (who don't seem keen at the moment).

Long delay plus general election?

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 17:22

Who is up for a final vote being tied and going to the speakers vote?

ducks for cover

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Littlespaces · 19/03/2019 17:24

I'm a bit pissed because I don't mind compromising, if a compromise can be found from a million different versions of BeLeave, but I'm sick of the 'We won' shit.

Nobody won.

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 17:25

The EU may be checkmating May into a Revoke

Going to stress this again, if there is a checkmating going on, it's by May on herself and the position is to have a vote on No Deal v Revoke not forcing May into a revoke situation.

I would call such a vote, simply too close to call.

It could just as easily end up as no deal as revoke.

So don't get too excited.

It would be a heartstopping Commons showdown.

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Loletta · 19/03/2019 17:26

Can't believe we've been put through all this stress for a bluff gone wrong. Today is the most anxious I've ever felt. The closer we get to Brexit day and the worse the chaos. I have a really bad feeling about this. Sad

Littlespaces · 19/03/2019 17:26

I'm really worried about the Speaker being targeted by nutters.

The tabloids would have his blood on their hands. It is disgusting journalism.

BollocksToBrexit · 19/03/2019 17:27

Has there been any news on what May will use as her justification to extend yet?

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 17:29

Sebastian Payne @SebastianePayne
Key development of today: long Brexit delay = Cabinet resignations.

Liam Fox, Chris Grayling and Andrea Leadsom have made it clear they would not be hanging around.

This makes it sound like the May losing the three most useless and workshy and incompetent ministers in her Cabinet would be a bad thing...

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Loletta · 19/03/2019 17:30

From Katya Adler:
One of EU conditions likely if PM requests lengthy extension, is that UK accepts negotiations with EU are over. Extension wld be for UK to internally find way forward. Otherwise EU fears UK cld hold EU to ransom eg: we’ll veto next EU budget unless you give us X in #Brexit deal..

Sounds very sensible.

DGRossetti · 19/03/2019 17:30

Has there been any news on what May will use as her justification to extend yet?

It's a bit of an irrelevance if the French news is correct. Whatever she uses needs to have parliamentary backing for a clear deal.

DGRossetti · 19/03/2019 17:31

One of EU conditions likely if PM requests lengthy extension,

Wasn't it discovered that the EU can't actually put conditions on an extension ?

Holidayshopping · 19/03/2019 17:32

Has there been any news on what May will use as her justification to extend yet?

My dog ate my WA?

TatianaLarina · 19/03/2019 17:32

I’ve always believed that a straight vote to Revoke in March was very unlikely. It would only ever be a last resort to stop us going over the cliff.

But we are currently facing the cliff edge.

The EU is demanding a rationale for extension that May simply doesn’t have. Not does she seem to know if she wants a long or a short one.

She needs to come up with something plausible fast - not just the dog needs more time to eat my homework.

1tisILeClerc · 19/03/2019 17:33

{I prefer to surf clothed, thank you.}

With this, and being dipped in chocolate a few days back, starting to create an interesting view of the Rossetti household!

TatianaLarina · 19/03/2019 17:35

Liam Fox, Chris Grayling and Andrea Leadsom have made it clear they would not be hanging around

Kerching.

Jumping a sinking ship.

1tisILeClerc · 19/03/2019 17:38

{Wasn't it discovered that the EU can't actually put conditions on an extension ?}

The word No (or non) isn't a condition.

Littlespaces · 19/03/2019 17:38

My dog ate my WA? Grin

Boris?

OublietteBravo · 19/03/2019 17:41

Did the 2017 GE really show support for anyone?

We ended up with a minority government, and IIRC lots and lots of marginal seats. (Our MP had a majority of about 1000, and I think there are around 50 seats which are more marginal than we are - previously that kind of majority would’ve put you close to the top 10 of marginal seats).

icannotremember · 19/03/2019 17:42

Does anyone know how they collect this data? By what means? What sample size? How do they choose the sample?

Years ago I worked in a Connexions team (anyone remember Connexions? Back when universal support and careers advice were a thing? No?) and one of my jobs was to ensure we had information on the NEET status of every young person in the area. Depending on their recorded status (ie, in further education, NEET, in training, etc) we had to follow them up at certain defined intervals (if you were NEET and claiming JSA we hounded you constantly, if you were in HE we left you alone apart from a polite annual letter until you dropped out of our age range). Funnily enough, mere occasional attendance at a weekly drop in group was often enough to get you moved out of the NEET group and into the Other/Training group. So whilst we had information on nearly every young person in the area- a surprisingly small number would refuse to give it- what was recorded was not always a true reflection of their circumstances...

DGRossetti · 19/03/2019 17:43

Did the 2017 GE really show support for anyone?

That was kinda my point about the 2016 referendum. Arguably the failure of both pro-Brexit parties to get a majority should have cancelled it out. After all, if MPs can change their minds, so can the electorate ....

TatianaLarina · 19/03/2019 17:51

Going to stress this again, if there is a checkmating going on, it's by May on herself and the position is to have a vote on No Deal v Revoke not forcing May into a revoke situation.

I wasn’t implying they were forcing her to revoke. This mess is entirely down to May’s incompetence and rigidity. She has boxed herself into a corner.

She has ways open to her to avoid a straight revoke vs no deal situation.

Runningintothesunset · 19/03/2019 17:52

Thanks for those Hansard transcripts Red, I’m just going to close my eyes for a while and imagine a world with Dominic Grieve or Ken Clarke as PM. And a cabinet without Leadson, Grayling and Fox...

LonelyTiredandLow · 19/03/2019 17:53

I keep dipping in and out this evening but would like to add that seeing as we know that Russia more than likely had a hand in funding Leave, I'm very very wary of having another vote of any kind until we have a full investigation. For all we are saying Corbyn isn't popular, what if Russia decide he is the next best thing for them? In a way a GE that has a short lead time might actually be better...? May has a lot to answer for for not investigating Banks. The cynic in me might say Russia is already backing their horse.

Littlespaces · 19/03/2019 17:53

and an opposition with Yvette Cooper, Jess Philips and others.

LonelyTiredandLow · 19/03/2019 17:55

Just an addendum - that post was trying to show I have no idea who Russia would back, and that is my point.