Westminstenders: Neglectful Drunkeness!

[RedToothBrush]

The HoC has spend the past 3 years in a state of Neglectful Drunkeness.

As it stands less then two weeks from Brexit Day, there is no deal we were promised. The Conservative and Labour Parties are more divided than ever.

The government is in disarray as 8 Cabinet ministers plus the chief whip voted against the Prime Minister including the Brexit Secretary who had minutes earlier argued for an extension only to vote against it. He is now on the brink of resignation.

The DUP look like they may be about to capitulate and vote for a deal. But it may not be enough even then.

This is what the cliff edge looks like.

Who wants to take a closer look?

More division, more polar extremes. It's either crashing out with no deal next week or ahh, forget it.

It's amazing, isn't it, how little you can achieve in over 2 and 1/2 years?

The EU would like more time for No Deal prepping

More than this, the UK needs it.

The point about not raising it at the second MV is stupid. How would the Speaker know whether the Govt would or would not have something new/different now.

They are surely all aware of the Erskine May section - it's been noted various times in numerous articles. Fair enough, I wouldn't expect the average person on the street to follow closely enough to know about it but I'd expect MPs to know.

It’s good news

I'm sorry but this is neither good nor bad news. We do not know where this is headed.

See previous tweet about it being 'good' for both Brexiteers and Remainers. (which means the statement is utter bollocks).

This does not make me feel happy.

I think this merely raises the stakes higher. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now both sides have little to compromise for and all to go for bust for. Remembering here that the default is no deal.

If the WA had been changed, Bercow could have decided
As it is totally identical to MV2 - all the same documents - he would have had to throw away the rulebook, not just bend the rules

A cynic might observe that this news (look at this thread for proof ...) seems to get the ERG and DUP off the hook. No need for them to vote one way or another now.

You can tell how much Bercow dislikes Andrea Leadsom.

LouiseC....how could the Speaker come to any other decision looking at the Erskine May wording where there has been no change.

None. Zip. Zero. Nothing. Nada.

There's no way he could follow Erskine May and find that there has been a substantive change?
Because...well....there hasn't been ANY change.

Only chance to pass something now before the EU Council Meeting Thursday-Friday is a PV,
maybe WA vs Remain

LouiseCollins28 I'm a remainer. I want the HoC to Revoke; if they won't do that I want them to offer a ref in which No Deal is not an option. I don't think Bercow's action today is part of a Remain conspiracy- yes, it could make a second vote/ remaining more likely, but it also makes No Deal more likely. I think we're all equally bloody confused right now!

So if we aren't allowed another PV amendment nor another MV motion

Ian Dunt @iandunt
But for instance, Kyle amendment obvs very different to a straight-up People's vote amendment, as it it contingent on deal support. Point Bercow is making with May deal is the content & purpose is literally identical.

So theoretical May could add Kyle amendment to her motion and that would be fine.

Its mutual susan

Interesting development

Remain voting general prepper here. My firm hope that HoC would somehow avoid No Deal just took a pasting. WA third time "lucky " seemed like the obvious way. I have no fecking idea how it will happen now and am hoping someone else can work it out for me.

I agree with RTB.

This is neither good news nor bad news.

It makes both no deal and a long extension more likely. It's all going to come down to how the Govt respond to it and what their next steps are and that's far from clear.

I agree with red sticking the Kyle amendment on the end of the WA might be the most sensible way forward. Then ask for an extension to cover it. Not problem free but possible?

With BCF on this, MV with Kyle looks most likely viable option to get something to pass before EU summit.

That however is Labour backed and the Tories will implode at the thought (remember last week May got the extension vote through with more Labour votes than Tory ones)

We are truly into uncharted and unpredictable lands now.

Leadsom just quite nasty to Bercow....drew gasps!

What did Leadsom say?

I find myself asking now, however, given that the Speaker is supposed to be neutral, but his views on the matter are well known, is what is his motivation for doing so?

Whatever side of the debate you are on, returning any bill again and gain without change, when Parliament has defeated it overwhelmingly, cannot be good for democracy....whether we no-deal or not.

The arrogance shown by May in thinking she could circumvent the mother of parliaments is breathtaking.

..and before you say it, any new PV will be on a different set of questions and with far more information available to the public.

I think we have to have a huge turnout on Saturday now. To show we won't stand for no deal. I can't go to London but there's a rally in Truro, so DS mental health permitting, will be at that.

Gordon Rayner @ gordonrayner
Has Bercow just increased the chances of a no deal Brexit? If May can't hold a third vote on her deal, the EU could refuse an extension on the basis that May has no plan. That would mean a no deal Brexit.

NICK Gutteridge @nick_gutteridge
Or, to play Devil's Advocate, the opposite. EU could interpret Bercow's decision as meaning a renegotiation of Political Declaration is required. For that UK will need time to decide what future relationship it wants and to change its red lines accordingly. Thus a long extension.

Anyway I have potatoes to go cook, whilst May works out how to fry her fish now.

The Speaker is defending the primacy of Parliament. Y'know. Our sovereign parliament with its sovereign rules.

Someone suggested Bercow held a Speaker's Conference across parties to figure out the way forward.

Bercow said Speaker's Conferences are usually at the request of the Govt.

Leadsom as Leader of the House said something along the lines of "we wouldn't do that as we'd only make such a request if we thought that the Speaker would do it with the best interests of the house and that isn't the case here".

Paraphrasing but that was the jist...

"Labour’s Geraint Davies asks if a meaningful vote would be different if it included provision for a confirmatory second referendum. Davies is one of those MPs backing the idea that the deal should be subject to one."

"Bercow says he would have to look at the details at the time."