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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Loletta · 12/03/2019 22:47

How does Dromey/Spelmam rule out No Deal altogether?

GaspodeWonderCat · 12/03/2019 22:51

There had been an unusual conjunction of circumstances. By exactly a million to one chance there had been someone watching, studying, looking for the right tools for a special job. And here was Rincewind Cooper/Boles/Letwin ...

In the fragile reality of Discworld, and with the gods who like to play games, a million-to-one chance succeeds nine times out of ten.

I am calling Revoke as a million to one chance ...

GroovieGazelloo · 12/03/2019 22:51

Wow ! Thread's already at 700 !
Been great reading everyone's thoughts.
And, just in case this might inspire anyone getting their banner ready for the march...

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 23:01

Total mess on Newsnight. They said they asked for a cabinet minister and none would come on. Instead they had Nadhim Zahawi, children and families minister (riiight) Barry Gardiner (groan) and Ian
Paisley (groan, again). All of them were totally incoherent. Now Nicky Morgan's on saying she wants to leave with a deal and is 'quite happy' with May's deal.

dontcallmelen · 12/03/2019 23:04

Emily looked like she was about to clatter the whole lot of them, Ian Paisley jr doesn’t care about silly polls apparently.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 12/03/2019 23:06

Transition? Does he mean extension? See, back again to why Junker mentioned this connected to WA...

I might be misreading you, but the WA is a Withdrawal Agreement, not a final draft of all treaties between an independent UK and EU. A transition period would follow allowing these to be set up. So he's saying that the WA is the only path to Brexit with a deal. There's nothing else on that table.

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 12/03/2019 23:08

Lurker here... Watching news night, god those politicians are a shower of shit aren't they!? Suella whatsherface is just horrible. Emily does look so exasperated with them all.

Tonsilss · 12/03/2019 23:11

.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 23:13

Dark I think i'm reading into something that isn't there.
I've put money on no deal, so it's not that I don't fully expect it, just that Junker mentioning it this morning seemed odd and I still can't put my finger on it. Suspect we will find out if we ask for an extension!
May have had wine which won't help my clarity Grin

wherearemychickens · 12/03/2019 23:15

It doesn't ever end, does it:

twitter.com/alanbeattie/status/1105607889748721665

Insanity, upon insanity, upon insanity.

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 12/03/2019 23:15

Who is the bloke in the colourful scarf!? He is a prize twunt...

Motheroffourdragons · 12/03/2019 23:16

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 23:17

Iain Dale

twitter.com/IainDale

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 23:17

Grace Blakely rips my knitting

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 12/03/2019 23:18

Sorry, on news night, he's just horrible... Moaning that it's May's fault.. The other two are making much more sense.

SwedishEdith · 12/03/2019 23:19

Who is the bloke in the colourful scarf!? He is a prize twunt...

On Newsnight? Iain Dale - an LBC gobshite, I believe.

dontcallmelen · 12/03/2019 23:21

Gobshite is a very apt.

SwedishEdith · 12/03/2019 23:21

Grace Blakely was the one who got all faux-upset about Jess Phillips the other day.

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 12/03/2019 23:22

It was always going to be a disaster, boils my piss these people blaming everyone but themselves for this mess.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 23:23

Yes, Grace took it upon herself to misrepresent Jess Phillips and then got arsey when she was called out on it.

QuentinWinters · 12/03/2019 23:24

gaspode love it. TP was very wise.....

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 23:25

Tonight I told leaver friend about brewing barley (2nd biggest agri crop export) being shunned by EU as they now source internally as they worry about tariffs and delays. It happens to be Germany we used to sell to now sourcing from France. Her exact words were "That is fucking MORALLY REPUGNANT and sums up the kind of people we are dealing with" Grin. As if a Leave vote was based on morals! You have to laugh.

Angeladelight · 12/03/2019 23:26

Michael Gove for PM? Nicky Morgan as chancellor of exchequer? I need another glass of wine.

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 23:36

If Gove becomes PM I'm going to have to stop following politics. I cannot bear his patronising, smug, junior debating club speeches.

His manner of delivering a speech annoys me even more than Theresa 'this bits really important, so I'm going to over enunciate' May and Boris ' I'm going to stammer a bit here and add in an obscure historical reference that only 2% of my target audience will get because it makes me look eccentric' Johnson.

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 23:38

LonelyandTiredandLow

Lol at your friend. Next time she mentions changing brand or shop to get a better deal I dare you to say 'thats so morally repugnant'. Grin

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