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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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Thread gallery
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HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 18:35

Homemade ginger syrup organic
Tonic water
Mint leaves
Gin
Gin
Gin

Steve double doesn't know how to vote with 20 min to go...

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 18:35

Well, fuck.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:37

Pretty I've started 2 in one day before.

This in response to Barnier's tweet

Robert Peston @peston
For the avoidance of doubt, the EU is warning that if @theresa_may’s Brexit deal is voted down, as far as they are concerned it’s full steam ahead with planning for a no-deal Brexit

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Belindabelle · 12/03/2019 18:37

At least the chamber is starting to fill up. The so called debate has been rubbish today.

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 18:38

Is it planning for no deal now? There's only days to go.

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 18:38

Can't start drinking yet or I'll be asleep by 7 so I'm starting on the ice cold diet coke I have stacked up in the fridge. Lots of crisps too for munching on later as it unfolds.

We're going to need another thread within the day, aren't we?

Yamayo · 12/03/2019 18:39

God this is like a bad soap opera. Fascinating until you realise how fucked up it all is.

As a EU national having lived in the UK 20 years and married a UK citizen I am grateful that my children have dual nationality.
Irony is I don't know what my status will be as one of my DC has additional needs and a complex medical condition- means I can't work and have ended up a SAHM.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:39

Paul Waugh@paulwaugh
One Tory MP, who has switched to the PM's deal today, confides: "If she loses, she really should quit. But she won't."

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HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 18:41

My drink has finished and I wanna EU flag to wave at the telly....

Yamayo · 12/03/2019 18:41

Not sure what could make her quit at this point...

Camomila · 12/03/2019 18:41

Maybe I should have put expert rather than talking head...like 'and now we have Camomila head of the X at Y university' and I will say wise things about the economy/poverty etc.
(I grew up on free school meals, I think that's a pretty good job ambition!)

On a lighter note the only alcohol we have in the house is prosecco - that's too happy a drink to drink while watching BBC parliament.

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2019 18:41

A Sky News poll finds 41% of those surveyed want their MPs to vote for the deal on Tuesday, while 43% said they should not.

Why does no politician say with the electorate and Parliament this divided perhaps now isn't the right time.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 18:42

"For the avoidance of doubt, the EU is warning that if @theresa_may’s Brexit deal is voted down, as far as they are concerned it’s full steam ahead with planning for a no-deal Brexit"

Where's that extension people were talking about now ?

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:42

Esther Webber @estwebber

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
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SparklySneakers · 12/03/2019 18:43

My misophonia is dreadful today. It's the stress.

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 18:43

We've yet to ask for one dg

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:43

Jim Pickard@pickardje
the expectation in the Commons bars is that fewer than 10 Labour MPs will back the May deal tonight

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Loletta · 12/03/2019 18:44

How are the Tiggers voting?

prettybird · 12/03/2019 18:45

I've just remembered that I also have the plum gin, plum and cinnamon gin and redcurrant gin that I made last year Gin

I've decanted the plum and cinnamon gin and the redcurrant gin, but have still to decant the "plain" plum gin.

[hic]Wink

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 18:45

Keir starmer has lovely hair at the front with the grey strike.

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 18:45

Well I have revels, minstrels and a very tall glass of rum and coke. The dogs asleep so I shall get some peace and I'm ready.....

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 18:45

Against I think lol

Belindabelle · 12/03/2019 18:45

I am going to pour a drink when Bercow calls “DIVISION”

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:45

Angela Eagle @ angelaaeagle
No sign of the Cabinet as wind up starts & Govt benches are half empty #BrexitShambles

Something brewing?

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bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 18:46

That is some fab gin @prettybird