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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 16:26

Damage limitation actions in progress:

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford

New:

So what will Theresa May do tonight in event she suffers defeat over meaningful vote?

Hearing rumours from good sources - not verified yet - she could announce she is requesting short A50 extension

Thinking is it averts damaging defeats and buys her time

Let's see...

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Also hearing this. No10 aides pushing the idea May could immediately request an A50 extension - a threat to get brexiters to back the deal? Or a way to bring it back in May and give MPs a straight choice then

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 16:28

(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges
Despite denials from CCHQ, now understand officials have indeed told Tory associations to begin preperations for European Election campaign.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 16:29

I don't expect the WA to pass this time,
May will probably try again in an emergency session, when MPs believe we really have run out of time.

So, the final few days before 22 May if we get an extension
or before 29 March if DG is right and we don't

The result then ?
Spin your prayer wheel for what you want.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 16:30

Georgia Roberts @GeorgiaZemoreyR

Still a mountain for May to climb for those votes just on her own side

Here are the switcheroo 17 thus far:

Penning
Lamont
Pritchard
Gray
Halfon
Bradley
Evans
Vickers
Hands
Syms
Mann
Thomas
Blackman
Offord
Loughton
Watling
Baron

99 to go...

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DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 16:32

The ERG derive any status they have from being the naysayers. In teh absence of a credible Labour opposition, that's the dynamic that is powering them.

They can't accept this WA and then carp about it in future - the immediate response would be "why did you vote for it, if it's so bad ?". Even the BBC could manage that. ERG as whiney loser (echoing "Remoaner") isn't going to advance any of their careers one iota.

Also, having leveraged so many media tricks themselves, I suspect they are well aware that if they did vote for the WA now with the excuse they had to save Brexit, the moment it's passed, everyone will forget how we got to the vote (sound familiar) so they won't be able to claim they were "forced" to vote for it.

Whereas no-deal, on the other had, has no downsides for them. They still get to blame someone else and carp on again ... and again ... and again ... a narrative that plays even better, were TM to revoke at the last minute. At least the ERG will have the moral victory of not betraying Brexit.

That's my Machiavellian analysis. Sun Tzu will follow Grin

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 16:32

So what is she using going to ask for an extension for? The fact her deal wasn't voted through? Hardly rocket science that would go one of two ways though, surely? Hmm

I am still wondering on Junker talking about the extension connected to the WA. I suspect they won't agree to an extension unless they agree it is needed to pass legislation? I just can't imagine every country voting to give us more time to be a PITA frankly.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 16:34

The UK needs to have something to exchange for an extension. Just flapping this WA around won't do.

Why should the UK need any extension at all anyway ? Remember: there were some MPs who felt A50 was overblown and we should have quite on the 24th June.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 16:35

I am still wondering on Junker talking about the extension connected to the WA.

If the WA passed then you don't need an extension .....

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 16:35

DGs The art of war :)

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 16:36

TMs the art of bore.

IrenetheQuaint · 12/03/2019 16:37

ShockHmmGin

Littlespaces · 12/03/2019 16:39

I return after a day away and what do I come back to?

Complete and utter chaos.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 16:40

I return after a day away and what do I come back to? Complete and utter chaos.

So no change then.

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 16:40

there were some MPs who felt A50 was overblown and we should have quite on the 24th June

Or certainly have invoked Article 50 then, as Corbyn said. It should have been clear then that whatever Corbyn is capable of, one thing he isn't is playing the long game. Any evidence that he's ever been doing that now looks like a coincidence.

BollocksToBrexit · 12/03/2019 16:42

I'm surprised that any MPs are changing their minds as it makes them look very weak. Everyone now knows that nothing has changed, the WA this time is exactly the same as last time. So it follows that the only real reason to switch is not being strong enough to stand by what you've previously voted.

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 16:44

I think labour MPs are toughening up, my local MP won't vote for the WA and it's NOTHING to do with the back stop but due to the lack of long term commitment to the CU.

Littlespaces · 12/03/2019 16:45

So no change then.

Yes and no.

You've always known the cliff is there and you are going to fall but it feels a lot worse when you are balancing right on the edge.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 16:46

I'm surprised that any MPs are changing their minds as it makes them look very weak.

They'll just claim they are following their constituents wishes. Remember the past 3 years have fundamentally moved to now excuse MPs from their decisions.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 12/03/2019 16:50

PMK

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 16:50

Johnny Mercer’s switched and he’s not on that’s list. So only 98 to go now.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 12/03/2019 16:52

I think she thought that the flood of dire 'no-deal' warnings from business after the last pulled vote would change MPs' minds, but a surprising number have held firm

Is that because they are scared of becoming the next Jo Cox?

TalkinPaece · 12/03/2019 16:54

Continuity
Lots of Parishes and districts have elections this year
many of the places you mentioned are non parished
and the parish elections although seemingly small
will become a way for people to have their voices heard
some parishes have bigger budgets than some districts after all

Cailleach1 · 12/03/2019 16:57

I would be surprised if it had enough to pass. Goodness knows, it is not predictable.

Blinkin' heck. Lord Haw-Haw Owen Paterson saying he is in the ERG. Who else in your tax funded secret society?

Loletta · 12/03/2019 16:57

Question: do you think the reason the ERG are not budging and seem fearless of a soft Brexit (or revoke) is they are not just good at poker, they actually know something we do not? How's the prospect of HoC taking charge not scare them? How can they be so sure?

1tisILeClerc · 12/03/2019 16:57

{Germany: residence information after EU Exit
Information for UK nationals on applying for residency status in Germany after the UK has left the EU.

4:20pm, 12 March 2019: EU Exit update: New links to information for UK nationals in 24 German towns }

Not sure if it is significant but until very recently most or all the Gov updates have said 'In the event of a no deal' or something similar.
They seem to be popping out at around 20 a day so someone is being busy.

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