Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

I was very struck by John Barnes comments on QT about racism- I know I have prejudices which are just that, unreasonable generalisations about all kinds of things. It seems to me that recognising our own prejudices is part of preventing racist, sexist and any other kinds of ist behaviour. And I wonder if Shameena Begum had been Katy Smith, blonde and white, would the media reaction to her have been the same? And if black MPs had been subject to the kind of abuse that Jewish MPs have suffered, would Labour really have dismissed it?

*sorry, Shamima Begum

Talk that Labour are about to whip to support the 'kyle amendment' for a PV.

Seen comments that the reason they haven't to date is because of constitutionencies such as Dudley with maj of 22 and MPs like Austin. With Austin going there is less reason to argue not too.

(John Mann is another cited as there's rumours of him going too)

It just smacks of bullshit.

Random yes - a lever friend who I had once held as a kind hearted family man responded to my reply on social media to an article on her saying that although Brexit is "a la mode" our country is facing more issues. I had to point out that while he may not be concerned about food shortages and price rises, the effect from that alone would be far greater to far more people than letting one IS bride and her baby back into UK considering the hundreds of actual fighters we have already admitted. He's gone quiet after that. Pissed me off because both of his kids go to private school and he is clearly just looking for something non-brexit related (because it's not unicorns) to take the heat off his choice.

I should point out my initial comment was about her being used to distract us from Brexit.

Off out for the day now. Catch up later.

Is that kipper pamphlet real? He looks like Moshe Dayan.

I must admit I have sympathy fatigue for those people and constituencies who voted for Brexit. Like that propagandist 'commentator' from spiked on QT (who is obviously doing a spin job), who said that people knew exactly what they voted for. OK. If it is shortages or unemployment, they knew this and they should knock themselves out with deprivation.

Unfortunately (and this is where my sympathy lies), they won't take the consequences on the chin. They will make sure other people, even if they didn't vote for this, suffer the consequences. It is those other people who have my sympathy. I don't have access to any other special media than Leave voters did. Yet the slick from the snake oil salesmen was thick as slime. They wanted it. They aren't thick, so they knowingly wanted it. For the children of the country, too.

I'm very cross. I haven't watched QT in a long time.

This from Michael Rosen on Twitter.....
Ian Austin MP believes he can shout at a Jew about how good Britain was on anti-semitism in the 1930s and 40s.
He's referring to being shouted at at a lecture given by Michael Rosen.

So I say this to further labour MPs. Stop using the anti semitism ticket when leaving the party especially as like Ian Austin you also object to polish people in this country! And want to back TMs deal and believe in austerity. Tell the TRUTH instead of lies.

Slightly delayed departure here. Wanted to comment re the Belgian florist/grower. I'm not in business, but surely if a single country is 90% of your market and they vote to change all of their trading arrangements you would sit up and listen? While I don't doubt some people ignored it all and will suffer. But i'd not a amazed if some of these stories on EU radio/TV are simply to try to get support for some leniency from EU side (maybe like the kippers on QT). Yes, people on both sides will suffer, but if a florist over here I heard interviewed knew the week after the vote knew her business was probably over, anyone on the other side would have too. There are stupid/hopeful/bad business people all over the world. Let's not think the suffering of EU will be anywhere near comparable to our suffering - every sector here will be challenged with few exceptions.

SB is so really our problem. After all she was radicalised here so she is our responsibility. Besides she is British and has just been made stateless by the tories illegally.

DG and others who think the EU won*t agree even to a short extension:

I'm possibly better to gauge the mood in the mainland, living here and being exposed to German / EU media & politicians , rather than the those in the UK.

imo - if asked - the EU would grant a short extension until 1 June without even needing justification from the UK.

3 main reasons:

1. The EU Commission are still making proactive statements that they would extend and also expressing concern that the UK has not even explored the possibility with them, re timing etc

Some member governments - especially ireland, but also others - have expressed a wish for extension,
mostly in the hope that more time could increase the chances of Uk politicians fully realising the dangers of No Deal and avoiding it.

They are particularly hopeful now with the Tiggers suddenly appearing and would want to give them more time

• my main concern about the efefctiveness of the Tiggers, aprt from their limited numbers, is the limited time left.

2. Although the EU Commission issued over 80 notices giving guidance for different sectors, starting in 2017, they have no authority to force anyone to follow the advice

Some businesses & organisations have started substantial prepping late - including public bodies like Calais port ! - because of the very high costs involved.
Since it is still not certain that No Deal is the outcome, some businesses have still not done much
Others whose business is mostly exporting to the UK haven't had the time to fully replace their market

3. The EU Commission in particular doesn't act in a fit of pique against the interests of the EU Ditto, calm leaders like Merkel

I have a break from politics on twitter every so often as there's so much abuse/nastiness on it from all sides of the political debate. I don't see just Corbyn supporters being vile, I see awful posts from those with FBPE in their names which also make me despair. I think in real life people are more tolerant, I hope so anyway.

Tom Watson is seeming somewhat statesman-like in response to the current goings on...

Leadership bid coming up?

@red The EU would insist the UK participate in EP elections if the extension requested is longer than 1 June
(barring a few days, of course)

EU law requires all members to be democratically represented in the EP, to be able to debate & vote on legislation.

If the UK did not have MEPs, certainly when the EP actually gets down to business in August, then any legislation passed might be declared invalid by the ECJ

It is pretty certain that someone would take this to the ECJ, if the situation were ever allowed to arise.

Hence, the EU Commission have stated publicly that they would only approve an extension after 1 June if the UK participates in the elections

btw, the EU long ago made provision for UK participation if Brexit didn't happen before the elections,
e.g. returning to the current MEP allocation

Awful tweet on twitter about the three amigos from an ERG member( female) but didn't catch her name. Short grey hair but wow! Real catty tweet saying they are all up themselves basically. And these are MPs? Also she said the want PV but refuse to let their constituents have one on them.

Legal background to removing citizenship:

Are you surprised ?
The Uk - and some other countries - never signed up to the full Monty UN agreement protecting ciitizens against becoming stateless

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/Declarations.aspx?index=United%20Kingdom%20of%20Great%20Britain%20and%20Northern%20Ireland&lang==en&chapter=5&treaty=145

The UK signed up to the relevant UN treaty on citizenship in 1961 and ratified it in 1966 BUT with the following provisos:

"[The Government of the United Kingdom declares that], in accordance with paragraph 3 (a) of Article 8 of the Convention,
notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1 of Article 8,

the United Kingdom retains the right to deprive a naturalised person of his nationality on the following grounds,

being grounds existing in United Kingdom law at the present time:
that, inconsistently with his duty of loyalty to Her Britannic Majesty, the person

"(i) Has, in disregard of an express prohibition of Her Britannic Majesty, rendered or continued to render services to, or received or continued to receive emoluments from, another State, or

"(ii) Has conducted himself in a manner seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of Her Britannic Majesty.
< this would be the proviso the govt might consider using >

The EU is all about being humane.

The U.K. is clearly in constitutional crisis, albeit entirely of our own making.

I just don’t think the EU are going to say no to an extension, even though they may do so thro gritted teeth.

If they say no and we end up with no deal from falling out (as opposed to thro choice) they will look like arseholes, as well as causing chaos for themselves.

That particular line is lose lose for them.

I see awful posts from those with FBPE in their names which also make me despair.

I've seen some awful stuff from FBPE. Got to be honest.

It's not nice.

What a world ( sigh)

Yes, I'm glad someone else noticed this about FBPE
Some posters are excellent; a few are horribly toxic, especially towards ordinary Leavers

So what about politicians being financed by foreign powers such as Russia? Why have they not lost their citizenship?
Or the British collaborators still getting Nazi pensions?

Extremists on both sides.

I'm hoping for the middle ground to win & factor in what is good for the economy. Unless you have mega personal wealth, both leave and remain supporters NEED a thriving economy. Time to recognise we are all in the same bloody boat and stop arguing about the oars.

I think if there was a leadership challenge now and Corbyn won again there would be a lot of splitters.

I think there are people holding on hoping that the party will swing back.