Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

Argument with df over dc's future job prospects. I am no longer staying silent.

Pisses me right off. Still I have made progress as he is now acknowledging that global warming might exist and the experts just didn't explain it very well. Cue me saying perhaps it might be the same with Brexit!

TBH I've often wondered if the types who think no deal = no Brexit are referring to the ERG when they talk of Brexit being frustrated by remainers in the government. So, European Reserch Group = pro-Europe / remain central. Maybe.

If anyone was following the UK in EU challenge court case, it has just failed. twitter.com/lawyers4eu/status/1098613891511271424?s=21

In fact it's entirely possible, given the average lack of IQ of the more extreme Brexiteers that the EU was aware of what was going on long before a British Brexiteer had found someone to explain it to them, thanks to the Express, Sun, Mail and Telegraph.

When do Tusk say it was either no deal or no brexit?

And the Polish former finance minister?

May certainly has been way behind the curve on things as her red lines testify to her stupidity.

Still I have made progress as he is now acknowledging that global warming might exist and the experts just didn't explain it very well.

All new houses to be gas-free ? Luckily I can't see any downsides to being tied to a single source of energy whatsoever.

{All new houses to be gas-free ? Luckily I can't see any downsides to being tied to a single source of energy whatsoever.}
Especially as the UK can't produce enough of it as it stands, let alone umpteen millions of people attempting to charge their electric cars up overnight when (for bleeding obvious reasons) solar won't be happening.
The muppets proposing to ban petrol and diesel cars earlier than 2040 haven't suggested what 'fuel' is going to be used. There won't be enough hay for the horses let alone electricity generation for electric vehicles.

Thanks, GeistohneGrenzen, I'm not very good at this Inernet thingy

It is absolutely true that there are lots of problems to solve.

What a shame that many of the technology and innovation jobs will no doubt go abroad. They rely on cooperation with other organisations and universities around Europe.

There are actual House Committees for "doing research ". Wanking in your office doesn't count.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/21/starmer-pm-is-running-down-clock-so-mps-only-get-binary-choice

Corbyn insists second referendum is central to Labour's agenda

Really? Don't believe it.

Peter Lilley on the charge the ERG are a party within a party: “Actually we’re a Research Group. We used to meet in my room and do research. That’s why we are so much better informed than most other people on these issues.”
Bullshit - then why do they have there own whip....

As I see it, unless there's a flip from the ERG, a strategy of trying to scare MPs into voting for that sodding WA can only be pantomime ("Theatre" is too dignified). Maybe some MPs will be willing and able to reverse ferret. But enough have criticised the WA to make that problematic.

There's also the problem of Corbyn being quite happy to let no-deal happen, so no direction from him to vote for the WA.

As far as I can see, all Dominic Grieve has done is back the WA ?

The city corporation bought a Welsh valley, flooded it, and piped the water to the West of Birmingham

Much to the anger of the Welsh, and then had the gall to sell surplus water back to Wales at 5 times the price. It used to enrage my late DF who was a Borough Treasurer to a Welsh Local Authority.

Meet in his room and 'do research'? Doesn't sound at all dodgy, that.

This brings to mind Private Eye and their Ugandan Relationships (i.e. a bit on the side for those who don't know).

{ Wales at 5 times the price}
But it was now 'special' as it had been passed by 'Brummies'.

Maybe some MPs will be willing and able to reverse ferret. But enough have criticised the WA to make that problematic.

If you are willing to reverse ferret, then nothing you have said in the past, no matter how many times you've said it, is a problem.

This is 2019. I thought you, ya private eye reader, would understand this more than anyone.

No such thing as too difficult to reverse ferret now.

Cofiwch Dryweryn

www.sharecast.com/news/brexit/tory-departure-threatsbrexit--3755164.html

Philip Hammond - If we do not have a meaningful vote next week there will be another amendable motion tabled which will allow the House of Commons to once again debate how it wants to go forward.

It is all so tortuous.

Bit late catching up but am interested in DG and Bigly's new politics. I thought i'd mention the Nuffield Ladder which is a basic policy guide. So for some things the govt will eliminate choice, such as enforcing laws. Other choices you need to make you will be guided or education given to allow free choice with no intervention at all. Tbh it can be an ethical minefield, but I think the theory works across the board to explain politics. A good example is vaccinations - currently we do minimal education and we advertise and advise for it but do not force people or make it illegal not to vaccinate. Then you have social media grabbing attention and pseudoscience educating with emotional responses such as fear (usually seen in the Media in general). The balance has upended in my POV with the media taking centre stage at all times and manipulating information and creating extra emotion, which as we have seen with Brexit, leaves the educated unemotional "experts" largely pissing into the wind.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cofiwch_Dryweryn

Anna Soubry on Question Time tonight.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/who-is-on-the-bbc-question-time-panel-in-chester-tonight-february-21-2019-1-5901408

A good example is vaccinations - currently we do minimal education and we advertise and advise for it but do not force people or make it illegal not to vaccinate.

There is a balance between the rights of the individual, and the greater good. Vaccination undoubtedly benefits all society, but there is a tiny individual risk. If we had a functioning society, any individuals so affected would be supported by the state. But we don't, so they can go to hell. Made a million times worse by the legal shenanigans any pharma company will go through to avoid bad publicity and liability.

Generally, Bentham and John Stuart Mill might be a good starting point ...

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant..."

Was Anna Soubry invited on QT before she jumped ship?

Yes DG, so when (as I have with dd) you have a class of 32 kids and 10 of them haven't been vaccinated, there is no herd immunity and the risk of the virus evolving grows.

Anti vaxxers are selfish to the hilt and largely survived up to now due to herd immunity. Now they are tipping the scales

I'm actually fuzzy with what feels like the flu atm, so sorry if my responses are a bit bumbling.