Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

I was assuming in an emergency: standpipes, military ferrying in supplies of water
would be sorted well before 3 days

Surely even Brexit & this govt can't turn us from a developed modern country so quickly

With the chemicals for water supply ... surely part of the problem is that, as they can't be stockpiled, every water treatment plant in the country needs the chemicals every day. And they will be stuck in transit. Even if the army airlift the chemicals in - they won't be able to bring enough for every water treatment plant every day - not with all the medical supplies they also need to be bringing in.
So rather than everywhere not having water at once, it will probably be more intermittent. When a plant gets the chemicals they'll treat the water and that areas taps will work - and then once they've run out that area will be dry until it's that treatment plants turns to get another delivery.

(I'm not actually sure about the logistics of turning the system on and off, frequently. They may just have to switch it off and bring in stand pipes. Or leave it running and put out massive PSAs about having to boil water before drinking. Which no doubt plenty will ignore.)

Either way - not only have I bought water, but I have also saved every squash/pop bottle I've finished since Christmas and on the day of a no deal brexit I will fill all of them up, as well.

I'm not convinced by the '3 days and they'll have to do something' ... that would require them to have the competence to do something - and I'm pretty sure they have proven that they do not have that competence.

BigChocFrenzy it would seem so, yes! 😂

newsthump.com/2019/02/19/tory-disappointment-at-news-chris-grayling-has-no-plans-to-split-from-party-and-stand-as-independent/

Grieve has said he would give up the whip but not leave the party on sky this morning if no- deal goes ahead.

P.J. O'Rourke in another book whose title I forget did a wonderful 'character assassination' of much of Europe.

He's an equal-ops writer ... he's just as scathing about the Republican party (which he claims to support) as the Democrats. His argument as long as I've read him is that the Republican party has wussed out and sold the American people down the river.

For anyone who wants an outsiders view of Northern Ireland, I can't recommend the original "Holidays in Hell" (subsequent editions are abridged ). He visits North and South and speaks to British Army and Sinn Fein and IRA members.

I disagree with bigchoc about the civil service. There are certainly civil servants who are very knowledgeable about trade (although the civil service probably does lack people experienced in negotiating trade deals simply because it has been an EU competence for many years).

The problem is that the civil service can only advise and ultimately it must implement govt policy however stupid it is. And also as BCF said, speaking truth to power can have career-shortening implications.

And finally, trade is a very big area; the civil service does have expertise, but not enough to go around - Brexit has implications for literally every sector and evert aspect of trade. People with serious trade expertise don't come cheap, and some experts may not be prepared to take a potentially career-ending risk in a Brexit-facing role.

Surely even Brexit & this govt can't turn us from a developed modern country so quickly

How soon does looting start after a massive blackout ?

I stand by what I said - we're one power cut away from anarchy.

But you need to get the dead dogs and sheep pee out of it.

Better dirty water than none. Isn't this why we learned to build a still at school ?

I'm not convinced by the '3 days and they'll have to do something' ... that would require them to have the competence to do something

I think that in the event of a serious issue with water supply the government would actually be able to do very little. It would almost certainly pass the buck to local councils and water companies.

I see this is a relatively minor risk tbh as water treatment chemicals are probably not delivered on a just in time basis (but please don't listen to me as I've been wrong about everything to do with Brexit so far lol - make sure you have a few large water bottles just in case).

Well at least dgd will see danger better with her new digital lens glasses! She has contact lens as she is going blind in one eye and deficit too much to wear normal glasses. Today she was told as she can't wear contacts for more than 8 hours she can now have digital lens. Woopee! Only its going to cost us £300. NHS only contribute about £50 but she does get her contacts free till she turns 18. So guess I will be landed with paying that somehow

misti I said "most civil servants"
Certainly they have a few experts, but not enough for our needs now - that sort of expertise is not sufficiently highly rated, imo and can obtain better pay elsewhere
Also, too busy to brief MPs very often

Bigchoc and Mistigri thanks

so - nobody comes in to the HOC and delivers a lecture that they can't get out of before a vote on something big takes place?
And mps don't have to physically be at the select committee hearings and they obviously can't be made to read the briefing papers.
So its perfectly possible (even likely) that mps are voting on big policy change from a place of complete ignorance?

I'm just thinking - Chuka Umuna tweeted yesterday about getting rid of pmqs ... maybe it could be replaced with expert qs, where every week a couple of expert from one field come and talk about that - and how policy affects it, and what works and what doesn't and how any proposed changes might affect the field ... and then mps ask them questions about it to check they've understand.
And attendance would be mandatory.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/21/philip-hammond-the-eeyore-chancellor-anyone-got-any-ideas?__twitter_impression=true
Philip Hammond, the Eeyore chancellor: 'Anyone got any ideas?'
John Crace

The man who only a year ago was describing himself as positively Tiggerish now sounded as if he was starring in his own hostage video.

And

Michael Gove was on rather more bullish form at environment, food and rural affairs questions in the Commons. Which was just as terrifying in its own way, because Gove’s confidence is invariably misplaced. The more he insists he has got everything under control, the more you know it is time to panic. His answer to Brexit was the no-nonsense approach of talking up the value of rationing by promoting his planned wartime cookbook, complete with recipes for rotting vegetables and unconventional cuts of meat. The working title for the book was Tripe.

This caused some consternation for the Tory Giles Watling, who is under the impression there is a huge black market in dog and moggy meat. Watling has explored the nation’s underbelly and concluded that everyone is secretly hacking their pets to death and eating them. He’s even spotted someone in the big cat enclosure at Whipsnade Zoo, taking a quick bite out of a sleeping lion’s thigh. The environment secretary offered only token reassurance. At times of national crisis, every pet should be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. Far better to die a free cockapoo than live a second longer as a slave of the EU.

Misti The chemicals can't be stockpiled as they are too volatile.
The UK doesn't produce them, so we import them from the EU - further afield wouldn't work

water treatment chemicals are probably not delivered on a just in time basis

I think the Mail on Sunday said they were. They can't be stockpiled because they are too volatile.

Central govt would have to take responsibility for bringing the supplies of chemicals through, probably via military airlift into the country and then - in an emergency - helicopter / truck to transport them to the plants

Local govt would have to cooperate, but would be helpless in an emergency if central govt doesn't do their bit

Just to intervene with a quick "this is how Preppers do water ":

Filter what you collect through an old T-shirt to get rid of the big bits.
To purify- rolling boil for a minute.

There are other prepper ways of doing it but that's the easiest.

My late mum's town had a major water supply problem and had to use bottled. I remember sitting in A&E with her having to use bottled in there too. That's one town.

And they've apparently 'only' got a 2 week shelf-life.

So nothing to worry about at all - unless we're assuming 10+ day delays at every port.

Chris Davies, the MP who is being charged with fraudulent expense claims, is my MP. He's a member of the ERG; he says he wants TM's deal in preference to No Deal, but he's long been a Eurosceptic. We had two Lib Dem MPs before him, Roger Williams and Richard Livsey, but Davies won in 2015 with a majority of over 5000. I'm not impressed by him - not only because of his fraudulent expenses - he seems entirely content to watch Welsh agriculture go down the u-bend.

I doubt the chemicals are that volatile (disclaimer: I work for a chemicals company) but obviously there will be some supply disruption - my employer thinks that delivering chemicals within the EU will take an extra 10-12 days though I don't know how they have worked that out (it's certainly not a worst case scenario).

I think there is probably a measurable risk that water companies will have to restrict use, so having some bottles handy makes sense.

@LonelyandTiredandLow and @SparklySneakers
Do you know you can freeze fresh eggs? Out of the shell - but I am going to try and find large ice cube trays

Alberto Nardelli @albertonardelli
The Department for International Trade has published a useful document listing the status of transitioning existing trade arrangements. Canada and Turkey among the deals that won’t be transitioned by Brexit day. Vast majority are “engagement ongoing”
www.gov.uk/government/publications/existing-trade-agreements-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal

Looking good Liam. Looking good...

Misti The 2 weeks is from waterbriefing.org

We should be ok if any delays at the French end + British end aren't then worsened by DRG's civil disorder making transport difficult
imo, 3 days should cover any local problems, which some people have had anyway without Brexit

https://www.waterbriefing.org/home/water-issues/item/15682-efra-committee-probes-michael-gove-for-guarantee-on-water-safety-post-brexit

mrs laughan I froze eggs in silicon muffin cake cases, then took them out when frozen and put them all in a freezer bag together.

@HesterThrale - good tip - thanks!!!!