Westminstenders: Distract and divert. Just close your eyes.

[RedToothBrush]

This morning Jeremy Hunt declared that, 'With vision on both sides we can find a way through that has the support of Parliament and also works for the EU'

Of course this is 18th February 2019 and the UK has yet to demostrate they understand the problem, much less have the vision to solve it. And we leave the EU next month.

It needs to be stressed at this point: DON'T FORGET TO FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS

Everything else is a tactic to make you close your eyes and miss what is really going on. Everything. Brexit looks increasingly like a hypnotist making their subject do ever increasing acts of ridiculousness on stage. Except I do not know if the public or the politicians are that poor sod. It is the magician who uses tricks of slight of hand to make you look the wrong way, whilst they makes all the big moves out of your vision.

There are so many stories that are coming out to try and make you miss what the government are failing to do. Stay focused. We can't ignore all these stories, but understand whether they are really important to the end game too.

A labour split, a march on the 23rd March, talk of a PV, the Brady amendment, the Malthouse Compromise, Cooper-Boles halting no deal?

No we need more than that.

The time for fantasies are gone. Its time to face reality and be pragmatic. The only thing that matters is the approaching cliff. Which we will go over not on the 29th March but in the next couple of weeks. We might not realise the ground disappearing beneath our feet at first. Our momentum as we go forward will carry for a short while before gravity kicks in.

But we can not defy the laws of physics and suddenly be able to fly because we develop magic superhuman powers of vision.

And no one will come to save us either.

Our national humilation will be total, if we don't acknowledge what is coming and stop.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Brexit Abbreviation Thread

Until they start spouting bollocks, TIGs would have my vote too. In a slender Lab Maj seat.

That's a good letter DG

If that's the case then surely anyone who automatically has the right to a second nationality through birth could be summarily stripped of their British citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary? That includes just about anyone with Irish or Jewish grandparents.

Maybe we need racial purity laws ? Only allow 100% white British to marry 100% white British, that sort of thing. Oh, hang on, isn't that what the entire UK immigration system is intended to ensure anyway ?

A little bit tricky when asked what other policies besides brexit they had in common. Gotta say prefer the 3 amigos to the other 8 who didn't mention anything about poverty etc. The leader of the new party between Allen and Soubry IMO. Please let there be some more principled people ready to jump!

I believe Churchill favoured summary execution, which is a different kettle of fish. Ultimately quite a lot of the Nazi ringleaders were executed (badly by the US, by the way). Remember the end scenes of "Schindlers List".

Not really - summary execution simply means execution without trial. Ie without following the standard legal procedure.

Some of the Nazis were executed but not before a fair trial had found them guilty of xyz charges.

Oh if you meant that summary execution is worse - quite.

Susan Churchill allowed a few days at the end of ww2 for essentially lawlessness to enable people oppressed by the Nazis to take revenge. I watched a documentary on it.

Yes, the UK fought against the Nazis and their supporters in most places. The UK knew they would have been in the Nazis viewfinder somewhere in the future. It was a happy instance of national interests being on the right side.

In one case they fought alongside and reinstated defeated Nazi collaborators and the example of Greece elucidates this point very well. The Greeks practically liberated themselves from the Nazis in the Second World War. They had a very effective resistance. It just so happened there was a Communist element to the Greek anti Nazi resistance. Churchill didn't like this Communist element. They weren't in the same sphere of influence as those areas divvied up with Stalin. So, Churchill didn't let the victors take control of the Greece they had liberated from the Nazis.

What did he do? He gave the Nazis collaborators a chance to take vengeance back on the Greek partisans by whom they were defeated. He was happy with those Nazis and supported them. He reinstated them in Greece. So he switched allegiances to back the supporters of Hitler against his own erstwhile allies.

The Greeks are taught this in school. The British don't seem to be aware their wartime gov't supported Nazis when their interests coincided.

In France or Italy, if you fought the Nazis, you were respected in society after the war, regardless of ideology. In Greece, you found yourself fighting – or imprisoned and tortured by – the people who had collaborated with the Nazis, on British orders.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/athens-1944-britains-dirty-secret

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3513172-Westminstenders-Stuck-in-the-Middle-With-TIGGERS?watched=1

New thread

Oh if you meant that summary execution is worse - quite.

We're back to outlaws again. Quite ironic it was the US (with it's wild west history) that persuaded told Churchill that it was rule of law and a convened court for captured Nazis (that didn't kill themselves). However they then let themselves down with short drop hanging.

It's an odd matter of pride that it was Britain that developed painless hanging ....

I'm actually finding these three more inspiring than the labour tiggers.

It pains me to say it, but same here. Seeing three women standing up and speaking out against the hard left will always warm my stone cold heart though.

For me Angela Smith promptly going on TV and making a rather shockingly racist comment after claiming to be leaving labour because of institutional racism rather took the shine of the labour Tiggers a bit. Hoping that these three can hold it together a little bit longer.

Heidi Allen's speech was brilliant. If they do become a party I think she might make a good leader.

I agree.. but I doubt Chukka would allow that! They're talking on the BBC of Chukka being the 'de facto leader' now.

I thought Anna Soubry's speech sounded very much like the beginning introduction of a new party...

It pains me to say it, but same here. Seeing three women standing up and speaking out against the hard left will always warm my stone cold heart though.

Who remembers the inspirational women of NI - in the depth of the troubles ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairead_Maguire

Mairead Maguire (born 27 January 1944), also known as Mairead Corrigan Maguire and formerly as Mairéad Corrigan, is a peace activist from Northern Ireland. She co-founded, with Betty Williams and Ciaran McKeown, the Women for Peace, which later became the Community for Peace People, an organization dedicated to encouraging a peaceful resolution of the Troubles in Northern Ireland.[7] Maguire and Williams were awarded the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize.[8]

(contd)

I've voted Liberal/LD all my life, for three reasons: PR, Europe, the environment.
Would find it hard now to vote for a party that spouts misogny and anti-science and condones a LGBTQwhatever Twitter feed of startling stupidity and viciousness. So glad to have somewhere else to go.

@Fishesaplenty
If that's the case then surely anyone who automatically has the right to a second nationality through birth could be summarily stripped of their British citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary? That includes just about anyone with Irish or Jewish grandparents.
Yup, and its been done over 100 times already by the UK

Yup, and its been done over 100 times already by the UK

In situations where they're British-born of British citizens and their 'second nationality' is only notional because it's automatic through birth and they haven't actually claimed it.

? That was a question.

DG Yep, I remember the Women for Peace

Any Scottish Westministenders attending this Brexit negotiations update tomorrow ?

E uropeanPolicyCentre@epc_eu

Join the EPC and MP @StephenGethins to discuss about #Scotland's future in #Europe.

Thursday, 21 February 2019 10.30 to 11.30
Please register to book a seat!
(link: https://bit.ly/1jtJeSX) bit.ly/1jtJeSX

While we wait for more Tiggers.....

Any Westministender farmers have comments on yesterday's tariffs news?

Fabian Zuleeg@FabianZuleeg

BBC News - Brexit: UK will apply food tariffs in case of no deal
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-47291378?

How will this work in Northern Ireland?
Where will UK apply these tariffs if there aren't external border checks or checks in the Irish Sea from the UK side as promised?

So far no answers on how this could work in Northern Ireland.

See three possibilities:

1. UK border checks in NI

2. UK border checks in Irish Sea

3. No border checks.

4. severely disadvantages NI farmers, 3) opens door to trade diversion through NI, disadvantaging all UK farmers

Shows rhetoric of UK government that in the event of no deal, they would not be the ones imposing checks in Northern Ireland can't be maintained unless some form of agreement.

Absence of common rulebook + open border = major trade/competition distortions affecting both sides

Peregina I should have placed a bet... I'm very disappointed in my behaviour...I've behaved practically civilized

Tom Newton Dunnn@tnewtondunn*

A pro-Leave Tory minister told me this morning that Wollaston and Allen have always been independent spirits, selected via primaries,
but Soubry's departure is a serious blow to the party.
A prominent One Nation moderate, and former Cabinet level minister.

Government's working majority with the DUP now reduced to 8.
@TheIndGroup now the 5th largest party in the Commons.

Watching Parliament Live.

We import 70% of fertilisers and you can't stockpile it as there is little spare capacity and ammonia nitrate is explosive.

This is before you get onto seeds and other things we need to grow our own food...

We import 70% of fertilisers and you can't stockpile it as there is little spare capacity and ammonia nitrate is explosive

(bell ringing ...) I'm recalling something about the security services and fertilizer stockpiling and terrorism ... suppliers of said have their orders monitored to see if anyone is buying more than they need ?

@Cailleach1

I did not know that re: Nazis/UK/Greece. Left out of English education along with many other things funnily enough