Westminstenders: Distract and divert. Just close your eyes.

[RedToothBrush]

This morning Jeremy Hunt declared that, 'With vision on both sides we can find a way through that has the support of Parliament and also works for the EU'

Of course this is 18th February 2019 and the UK has yet to demostrate they understand the problem, much less have the vision to solve it. And we leave the EU next month.

It needs to be stressed at this point: DON'T FORGET TO FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS

Everything else is a tactic to make you close your eyes and miss what is really going on. Everything. Brexit looks increasingly like a hypnotist making their subject do ever increasing acts of ridiculousness on stage. Except I do not know if the public or the politicians are that poor sod. It is the magician who uses tricks of slight of hand to make you look the wrong way, whilst they makes all the big moves out of your vision.

There are so many stories that are coming out to try and make you miss what the government are failing to do. Stay focused. We can't ignore all these stories, but understand whether they are really important to the end game too.

A labour split, a march on the 23rd March, talk of a PV, the Brady amendment, the Malthouse Compromise, Cooper-Boles halting no deal?

No we need more than that.

The time for fantasies are gone. Its time to face reality and be pragmatic. The only thing that matters is the approaching cliff. Which we will go over not on the 29th March but in the next couple of weeks. We might not realise the ground disappearing beneath our feet at first. Our momentum as we go forward will carry for a short while before gravity kicks in.

But we can not defy the laws of physics and suddenly be able to fly because we develop magic superhuman powers of vision.

And no one will come to save us either.

Our national humilation will be total, if we don't acknowledge what is coming and stop.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Brexit Abbreviation Thread

I'm not sure how much sympathy there'd be if SB was male.She knew what she was getting into. 10 is the age of criminal responsibility in the UK and she was 15 and made a choice. I'm not getting into the whole citizenship thing as don't know enough about it but she gets no sympathy from me on the terrorism front.

I think it would be extremely difficult for many of us to feel compassion for Hitler or the Moors murderers, but they should still be subject to the due process of law. Hitler wasn't because he committed suicide of course.
We already have a Government which seems to think that laws are a part of a pic'n'mix menu.

How many people don't make stupid decisions at 15 though?

I've also emailed Anna Soubry to thank her for her courage. Have never voted tory but would vote for a principled independent.

Going back to the patronising response to the Revoke petition, which totally ignores the views of the 16.1 million that voted Remain...

One of the questions that Ian Blackford was asked on Monday was what was, given the divisions that the close Brexit vote has resulted in, what were his views on a threshold requirement in any future Indyref? ...given that in other countries, constitutional changes usually require "super" majorities.

His response was that, if/when Scotland voted for independence, in contrast with Theresa May, the SNP/independence campaign would see it as their duty to try to listen to the concerns of those that didn't vote for it. That we should listen to the voice of all Scots and try to address their issues, because we do all belong to Scotland.

...and that he knew that Nicola didn't just want to win by a tiny margin. She wants to win well.

How many people don't make stupid decisions at 15 though? Depends on what you call 'stupid'. At 15 I was as dull as ditch water like millions of others.

Do you have the email addresses of the 3 tories please? I'd like to add my congratulations to them all.

And here we have it:

Nick Boles MP @NickBoles
Nick Boles MP Retweeted The Independent Group
I agree with so much of what my good friends say here but I am not ready to give up on @Conservatives yet. Progressive One Nation Tories must fight for what we believe in - and next week vote to pass the Cooper-Letwin bill to stop no-deal Brexit on 29 March

Tom Harwood @tomhfh
"yet"?

Told ya!

It's possible to have some understanding of how SB might have ended up where she is without getting dragged into emotive debate. She was 15 and anyone who has teenagers (I have two) knows how easy it is for young pre-adults to behave stupidly and without regard to consequences - and that's without factoring in grooming by adults.

There is also the ethical question of whether people can be rehabilitated. Do we really believe that there is no prospect of rehabilitation for a teenage girl who has not, as far as we know, committed violent crime?

I agree with the comments about due process. However, the reason that Sajiv Javid has done this is partly because he knows she would be treated sympathetically by the courts (and for good reason).

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Thanks red
I've already emailed the useless Wragg urging him to take action like these 3 MPs have.

Being pedantic (sorry Sparklysneakers ), the age of criminal responsibility is not 10 in the UK

...It is eight in Scotland - the youngest in Europe - but the age at which they can be prosecuted is 12 (because before that they are heard by the Children's Panels).

It is in the process of being raised to 12 though www.gov.scot/policies/youth-justice/raising-age-criminal-responsibility/

@DGRosetti
Besides, I have a published post in Pedantry Corner on my CV as a testament that I really do have "attention to detail"
RESPECT

Jess Phillips speaking just now on Sky News was also much more open to looking beyond Labour than I have heard her before. Saying she had thought she'd be
Labour till she died but that she agreed with lots of what her colleagues said. And that it was time now for Corbyn to really listen, appoint people from across the PLP etc.

Since we can all guess that Corbyn's response will be 'Yes I'm listening, I will carry on doing exactly the same, la la la' I wouldn't rule out more resignations.

I'm wondering if that is a bot response as a) it doesn't make sense and b) it doesn't relate to anything that was posted recently even though it is "addressed" to me

A real name followed by a two digit number as their user name? Yep. That would be a bot.

{Well some tories quitting the Tory party does give a sense of something could come of all this. But are they even joining the tiggers?}

Maybe they might group into Eyores or Wols?

BCF - That’s a conflation of two different points - I said you have to live the values you want to see - otherwise you’re no better than they are.

That may not necessarily involve feeling compassion on a personal level but it does involve treating people humanely. Which could be argued to be a form of compassion.

The point is Begum is effectively being denied what you call ‘due process’, she has not being tried here for being part of a terrorist organisation, instead she has become a pawn in a policial game

I have stayed well away from the SB threads because I honestly don't know what I think. I know that I feel very little (or maybe no) compassion for her predicament, despite understanding that she was/is young and foolish.

BUT what I am sure of, is that it is ugly, cowardly, lazy and racist of the UK Government to try to avoid due legal process in this way.

Theo Usherwood @theousherwood
Labour's plan for parliamentary recall when MPs resign from a political party "just looks spiteful", Tom Watson told me.
www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/theo-usherwood-turns-the-tables-on-tom-watson/

Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
Spokesman for Jeremy Corbyn says breakaway Independent Group is “an establishment coalition based on the rejected policies of austerity, corporate tax cuts and privatisation”. Reaching out exercise hits the buffers.

Yes, Heidi Allen going to the food bank with Frank Field in complete disgust with the Tories, saying "I've absolutely had enough" really looks like that Jeremy.

Oh and your intended manifesto policies were worse for the poorest in society than the LDs, so I don't know where you get off on your hypocritical high horse.

God, I dislike that man more daily for the lies.

Rob Ford @robfordmancs
Key differences IMO between current political context and political context in early 1980s:
1. Partisan attachment to traditional parties much lower now
2. EU referendum has created new forms of partisanship - Leave and Remain - which are v strong on many measures

I can see a socially liberal, pro-EU party being at least competitive in some currently Labour seats with high concentrations of graduates, strong remain partisans etc. Hard to see them winning more broadly but (as with UKIP earlier) biggest influence could be indirect

If the most remain leaning 10% of a local electorate switches to this new party on an expressive basis (i.e. without caring whether they win), how does that alter the local balance of power? Complicated Q with very variable answers I suspect.

Ian Warren @election_data
Last year I described how the @Conservatives have been performing very poorly in the south of England. Today's move from defecting Tory MPs only amplifies this.....if they care
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/09/tories-southern-red-south-england-london
Watch out, Tories. Your southern strongholds are turning red

And people say to me "This Independent group just hurts Labour". Not knowing the analysis of the SDP doesn't show that at all. Forgetting that the Conservatives have just as much to fear as Labour

One million people left London in the last five years. Mostly young families or early careers. Moves to commuter belts across the south. A great Remainian tract of land stretching from Cambridge to Bristol and south to the coast.

They're of the centre - pragmatically concerned with local schools for their children, housing costs, transport infrastructure. And thoroughly ill-disposed to extreme positions on the left or right.

So, my ask of the media would be: stop focusing so much on Labour, pan out across the south and find the voters I describe. Understand THEIR concerns instead of only ever thinking it's a Labour problem

I think it would be extremely difficult for many of us to feel compassion for Hitler or the Moors murderers, but they should still be subject to the due process of law. Hitler wasn't because he committed suicide of course. We already have a Government which seems to think that laws are a part of a pic'n'mix menu

Hitler wasn’t but the rest of the live captured Nazis were tried. Britain, including Churchill, actually favoured execution initially but Roosevelt felt the US public would expect a fair trial.

Buttery is he saying that though? Seems to me he's saying "Fine, get out then. Must mean you weren't 'one of us' anyway!"

I agree with the comments about due process. However, the reason that Sajiv Javid has done this is partly because he knows she would be treated sympathetically by the courts (and for good reason).

He’s basically avoiding due process here because it would be too liberal for his taste, and he wants to use the case to grandstand to the hard right.

^BUT what I am sure of, is that it is ugly, cowardly, lazy and racist of the UK Government to try to avoid due legal process in this way.

Yup. In a nutshell.

I saw Heidi Allen doing a piece on foodbanks on tv, trying not to cry. I think she's become increasingly disillusioned with the tories, not only because of brexit.

To quote a meme...a stupid decision at 15 is getting drunk on white lightening at the youth club, it's not running away to a war zone to voluntarily join and support a murderous religious cult.