Brexit is starting to feel like social cleansing

[Cheekysquirrel]

I’m probably paranoid but I’m starting to feel like there’s an agenda here - surely the government can’t be that useless?
In the event of crashing out those who are already struggling will struggling more. People who are ill or disabled and can’t get access to medications (including me) could die.
Is it over the top to suggest that this is an exercise in allowing the fittest and richest to thrive? By design or by accident? I’m no longer sure.

Interesting research from France on BBC today:

New research suggests that France is deeply divided in its attitudes towards the EU, with just a third of the country describing themselves as 'attached' to the European Union. The sense of attachment to the EU - felt by just 34% of respondents - was much lower than researchers expected.

But the biggest surprise, researchers said, was the wide gap in perception between France's wealthiest and most mobile workers - who said they believed the EU brought prosperity - and the remaining 80% population - almost all of whom believed it did not.

Yes agree, inequality is the root cause of Europe and the UK's problems.

Pre 2008 we seemed to at least play lip service to reducing inequality, now Govt and business appear not to care or in the case of the Tories, actively seek further inequality.

BUT none of this is the EU's fault, they simply do not have the power over sovereign states social/tax policy.

BUT none of this is the EU's fault, they simply do not have the power over sovereign states social/tax policy.

I agree jasjas. But neither does the EU promote equality in any way. The EU tends to recommends austerity as the solution to debt for example.

There seems to a belief here that the EU is a socialist paradise and that the UK is right wing in comparison. In fact it is the other way around.

"The EU tends to recommends austerity as the solution to debt for example."

We are not in the Eurozone and so do not have to have austerity and debt targets due to this.

We have them anyway.

To be fair to the EU having a target of lowering sovereign debt among Euro countries encourages stability within the zone.

It’s social cleansing in small ways too. We are getting married in Europe after brexit. Going to cost about £100 extra in visas, car insurance changes, permit to drive etc etc. We can afford that no problem although it’s a pain and we disagree with it. Not so easy if you are people who save all year for their one holiday on the continent.

YANBU

I don't think any Remainer thinks that the EU is a paradise, socialist or not. Most of us think there are reforms which could be made, but would rather have seen our government get on with proposing them in a co-operative spirit, instead of always whining and usually getting special deals. Many of us think that sticking with what we know is better rather than taking a complete gamble on an unknown, led by charlatans such as Johnson and Farage. Even then we might have accepted a Brexit if it had been backed up with proper research and implemented to a realistic timetable. Instead we have had silly slogans, and leading Brexiters making mighty sure that their money isn't affected, because they have pulled it out of the UK.

I agree jasjas. But neither does the EU promote equality in any way. The EU tends to recommends austerity as the solution to debt for example

That doesn't make sense, only the UK carried on with Austerity, which, initially, had to be done after the 2008 GFC.
the EU budget spent in v poor regions of the EU is surely helping to reduce inequality? Our govt spends little on the regions in the UK, just raises CT and reduces council funding.

There seems to a belief here that the EU is a socialist paradise and that the UK is right wing in comparison. In fact it is the other way around

Only if you see the EU as a country which most remainers do not, there are countries in europe that try to address inequality far better than the UK...
There is no doubting that the UK is right wing compared to many european countries.... i.e pursuing Brexit is further than many far right nationalist parties would wish to do so.

Jasjas. I don't see the EU as a country. Maybe you could google EU imposed austerity to see how EU policies increased inequality in countries like Portugal and Greece.

If I google "EU imposed austerity " I wonder what unbiased and properly referenced resources I would get. Google the terms you already believe in and get your views confirmed.

Well that's true Bellini, but if you don't believe that the EU has ever imposed austerity, you might learn something new from that particular search. You will at least see another pov.

Milly in my original reply to you, i did say that austerity measures had to be implemented after the GFC, there is nothing controversial about that.

The UK has decided to keep on with austerity, pretty much all on its own - even now cuts to local govt real terms funding is being cut - it is doing this with zero encouragement from the EU, it is politically driven.

Portugal and esp Greece should never had been in the euro and had tax and spending issues that had to be dealt with, in or out of the EU/Euro.

Austerity in a UK context is absolutely nothing to do with the EU, its just another made up excuse to leave the EU.

I agree that UK austerity has nowt to do with the EU.

It's also got nothing to do with Brexit. So this conflation with Brexit and social cleansing is a made up excuse not to Brexit.

Obviously policies enacted from 2010 are nothing to do with Brexit BUT should the economy tank, then given their current love of cutting services and benefits.... Do you really think that they will not continue this policy?
Look at cuts to PIP and to women's refuges? whilst, as they've done already with corp tax and Inheritance, carry on cutting taxes for the wealthiest in society?

Except Brexit will be used as an excuse for further austerity and cuts to public services, and people will accept it.

Its called Shock Doctrine.

Brexit is about the 1% avoiding taxes that they don't feel they should pay because taxes prop up the weak and feckless who deserve their misery.

It's also about Putin and some unscrupulous disaster capitalists destablising the west in order to seek financial or political gain.

The tragic thing is the Leave voters who fell for it being about the Union Jack and all things British. They voted for their own demise and they're taking the rest of us with them.

It might also be worth remembering that "the EU" is not (currently) an alien entity. Britain is (was) a part of it, and has (had) quite a lot of influence in it. It is quite likely that an emphasis on austerity in the EU comes from the dislike of countries like Britain for paying for other poorer countries, and dislike of the public sector is likely to have Britain's hand behind it. The EU will I think be a lot stronger without us, it will be interesting to watch for those who still have the luxury for such things in ever-poorer Brexit Britain.

The information given at the time was woefully inadequate

Every eligible voter had the option to abstain if they thought there was insufficient information to make a choice.

But since Leavers didn't vote because of immigration

I would say mass immigration as allowed by labour from 2004 onwards was the second reason people voted Leave. The first reason being an objection to Brussels being in charge even though not elected.

We did vote for governance in Brussels. MEPs, remember them. Who oversee the Commission, the heads of which our elected leaders vote for. The problem hasn't been that we don't elect people in Brussels but that our influence is diluted. People in Yorkshire could say the same thing about London and e.g. the House of Lords (even less democratic than anything in the E.U.) and the civil service.
People did not vote routinely in the E.U. elections just as they don't in local council elections.
But we are where we are.
Accept WA. Suck it up that this is hard entirely because of GFA.

I have yet to meet a Leaver who votes in the EU elections. It's always, "I don't agree with it, on principle." I take this to mean, "I can't be arsed."

I have yet to meet a Leaver who votes in the EU elections

17.4 million is a lot of people to meet.

Well what about you missedtheboatagain, did you vote in the EU elections?

did you vote in the EU elections

No.