Brexit is starting to feel like social cleansing

[Cheekysquirrel]

I’m probably paranoid but I’m starting to feel like there’s an agenda here - surely the government can’t be that useless?
In the event of crashing out those who are already struggling will struggling more. People who are ill or disabled and can’t get access to medications (including me) could die.
Is it over the top to suggest that this is an exercise in allowing the fittest and richest to thrive? By design or by accident? I’m no longer sure.

If you read about the failure of the potato crop in Ireland in 1845 you won't be reassured. The attitudes seem similar.

Or...just perhaps...to break down society to such a complete state of disarray that the upcoming AI revolution will not result in all-out rebellion. Because people will be glad of whatever intervention they can get, by then. Slinks back off to be sensible

Totally agree, something's afoot. Great way of culling the population, particularly people that cost money, like me, as I'm type 1 diabetic 😞

Yeah me too colour

particularly people that cost money, like me, as I'm type 1 diabetic 😞

Not if you are a rich diabetic - Theresa May will be OK.

I feel that people who were manipulated either way are dumb.
Whatever happened to making your own informed decisions and taking anything that the media and politicians say with a pinch of salt?

I therefore have zero sympathy gor leavers who said they were lied to.

What about the fact that wages are going up steadily for the first time since 2011?
And housing costs are also finally going down.

This is because the influx of cheap labour from EU countries has slowed since the Leave vote.

Does that not suggest that Brexit is a positive thing?
Brexit is the only way to stop Freedom of Movement. And we do not have to have a no deal, Even Theresa May's Withdrawal Agreement stops Freedom of Movement.

If we decide to revoke and remain, wages will start to fall again and housing costs will rise. Who benefits from that?

If the cost of living rises significantly which being outside the customs union entails, those wage rises and house price drops mean nothing.

Not only that but investment in businesses has dropped off considerably and the number of jobs available may well decline particularly in areas which are highly dependent on single industries like car manufacturing. This in theory will force a lot of wages down.

If there are more people out of work claiming benefits then there is less in the treasury. Combine with businesses moving offshore for EU reasons which has the side effect of them all paying less to the treasury. This means that services are squeezed further - and frankly there is nothing left to squeeze so they collaspe completely meaning many more affluent types go private for things like healthcare - or taxes on those in employment rise, which affects how much they have to spend and again raises the cost of living for the employed.

A tank in the economy which includes a house price drop isn't good news for everyone. It could involve interest rate rises (which mean a cheaper house isn't any more affordable anyway) and leave some with negative equity or otherwise unable to sell due to greater unemployment in their area, thus meaning that they are trapped, more likely to default on their mortgage and lose their house completely or lack mobility to start a new job in a different area.

The question really is if wages are going up to compensate for this cost of living, or changes to the economy are people really actually better off or not? Its about relativity of cost to the person on the street not raw ticket price cost that really matters.

I'm also not convinced that wages are rising for everyone; wages increases have been fuelled by skill shortages in certain professions where skilled workers have left the UK but those who are unskilled haven't necessarily benefitted. Its more that there has been even more of a widening of rich and poor.

I'm sorry but 'but wages are going up, and house prices are going down and this is good, what's not to like?' is a lazy, simplistic and rather shallow take.

The national economics is a bit more complicated than wages and house prices.

If we decide to revoke and remain, wages will start to fall again and housing costs will rise. Who benefits from that?

These are issues that relate to other things apart from Brexit. Policies could be introduced to manage some of these effects, but no one is even putting these on the radar. Brexit does not resolve these issues if we leave either.

As my point above, relative cost is the important factor, and no deal will mean lower incomes for those at the bottom and may not improve housing affordability at all anyway. It might mean more of the rich buying up property at the expense of those on lower wages.

No deal will increase the divide between rich and poor. Great if you happen to be on the right side of the line. Potentially catastrophic if you are unlucky and fall on the wrong side.

Political pics @ politicalpics
Philip Lee just left No10 and got his spad to do a selfie at the door! Last pic maybe

Maybe. Maybe not.

But his presence at no 10 at all is interesting.

Get a grip. You're being totally ridiculous.

Oops, wrong thread for last post.

We shouldn't be under any illusion whatsoever regarding the callousness of ERG, Teresa May, and associated individuals and backers. They care not a jot for the well-being of society - austerity was unleashed as a priority - after so long in Opposition they were champing at the bit. IF you have wealth, you're fine. If you don't you are up shit creek.

They are a spectre to this country. The notion we are a liberal, kindly society lasted for decades, and ended with Cameron and Farage. Understandably the electorate take a bit of time to catch up on the nasties motivations, but Rees Mogg and Johnson are making it pretty plain.

There is no link at all between leaving the EU and austerity. In fact the EU imposes austerity on Eurozone nations who do not want it.

Austerity is Tory policy not Brexit policy.

If we remain in the EU, the Tories are not going to become more generous. Anna Soubry (the remainers' darling) was defending Tory austerity yesterday in the TIG press conference.

Whatever happened to making your own informed decisions and taking anything that the media and politicians say with a pinch of salt?

Where do people get information if not from the media? Their peers? Also leavers. Shitty media is to blame and there is a reason an ethical press is essential for effective democracy.

Oh and housing prices went down and wages went up after the Black Death. Doesn't mean the plague is 'good'.

Soubury isn't remainers darling. She's a vocal Independent MP, nothing more.

Oh and housing prices went down and wages went up after the Black Death. Doesn't mean the plague is 'good'.

True, but without a plague, housing costs going down and wages going up is good.
Not good for shitty employers like Amazon of course, that's why Amazon and their star Jeremy Clarkson are always campaigning to remain.

Jeremy Clarkson was pro Remain before he got himself a lovely Amazon gig.

True, but without a plague, housing costs going down and wages going up is good.

Can't you read?

It means shit all if in relative terms the cost of living has increased, you gave to pay for more services, or it only benefits the rich half of society and the poor still get poorer.

But yeah just ignore anyone saying that economics is more than wage rises and house prices of that suits your simplified version of the world.

favepalm

In regards to misinformation, I saw just how gullible people are on Facebook this week when someone posted an obviously Photoshopped image (of our local area, nothing to do with Brexit) and lots of people have commented on what a great photo it is and other comments that make it very clear they think it's real.

That's exactly how the leave campaign worked too - so many people think if it's on Facebook, it must be true. Some people just totally lack any capacity for critical thinking and questioning the "facts" they are fed.

Some people just totally lack any capacity for critical thinking and questioning the "facts" they are fed.

I think this is deliberate. Education system based on rote learning and repeating facts, anyone? Only at university (and increasingly not even there) is critical thinking essential. I think back to my grandparents and their very poor mining and mill communities and there was an active (if really patronising) movement to increase literacy, knowledge, union involvement, class based analysis, political involvement. Where has that gone?

Education system based on rote learning and repeating facts, anyone?

Except that if you look at educational systems and change you would expect to see a generational pattern that reflected this.

I don't believe thats reflective what happened.

It's more about the value you put on education which has cultural patterns.

People who value education, even if they didn't have a great one are much more likely to be critical thinkers.

Yes. Getting rid of the poor, disabled and vulnerable is one of the Tory aims. Or at the very least, they have no regard for people who unable to earn money for others. It's like they see no point to this section of society so are happy to let them rot. I hate the Tories.

Milly. This is because the influx of cheap labour from EU countries has slowed since the Leave vote.

What contradicts this is that if the govt wanted to reduce immigration, then they could have done by restricting non EU immigration which they didn't do and is now at one of the highest levels.

I doubt after Brexit immigration will be greatly different