Westminstenders: Oh Look is that a fire in the Italian Capital?

[RedToothBrush]

Next stop: 27th Feb.

Where we will apparently have Cooper-Boles II which apparently will pass but still assumes that
a) the EU will grant us an extension despite our fuckwittery
b) that it will prevent accidental no deal, which it doesn't
c) glosses over the minor point that the only way to 100% prevent no deal is to say you'll revoke if everything else fails

Meanwhile in reality we leave in law on 29th March, despite the rest of the law having zero chance of being ready in time. Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal alike.

All that is actually happening is the Tories and Labour fighting amongst themselves. Corbyn is still pretending that Brexit isn't really that important and hoping it will just go away. May is still trying to compromise with the ERG - whom if you paying attention 18 months ago were obviously were never going to compromise on anything - cos they are fuckwitted swivel eyed loons.

Meanwhile the entire country has no other alternative but to assume no deal and act accordingly.

A deal on the 21st March (as is the planned date of the Meaningful Vote) is simply too late for planners. For them no deal has already happened even if it does never come to pass.

The strategy of brinkmanship has destroyed us. We just don't know it yet.

A Split in the Tory and Labour parties may well make matters even worse going forward with further political polarisation.

Where next for Brexit?

Who knows and does it even matter now? The damage is irreversible and will take at least a generation to heal wounds. Economically it may never be recoverable.

FUKD.

The pathetic 'rejoicing' by 'leavers' when they spot something in the EU that could be better, such as a bit of a downturn is pathetic and massively stupid.
If the EU were to fail the UK would be crushed as the EU went down.
A bit like sailors drowning when a ship sinks, the massive down currents underwater suck everything and everybody with it.

sos The worst fears of shortages or fascism etc won't happen if the government stays awake & sober
(I fear they won't)

BUT
The UK loses almost all its trade deals after No Deal
So
Expecting trade to continue as before, is like expecting a runner to continue as before when they have broken both legs

What is a real concern:
Lehman's going under in 2007 caused the world to suffer a financial crisis

The UK was the world #5 economy before the 2016 referendum, now #6 or #7
and the City is the world #2 financial centre

What happens to the world economy if the UK economy crashes ?

Would the UK No Deal result in another global economic / financial crisis ?

A global recession is predicted soon anyway

Sostenueto

I've not heard of any Brit being harassed here
A df's sibling lives in an eu country, married to another eu citizen also not from that country. The worst abuse and they mean that in a ribbing rather than actual abuse way they get is that they aren't football fans whilst living in a very football predominant city. They often wonder why my df is worried about them when she sees what's happening to eu citizens here with her own eyes.

Sos - you do realise that the UK's growth is also teetering on the verge of recession at 0.2%? So that tiny amount can also be wiped out by corrections for the very quarter being reported (or to use your words, is neither here or there really. That tiny increase can be wiped right out just like that ) and the prospects for the next quarter (the one we're in) are not good because potential chaos of No Deal (although like last quarter, some of the supposed growth will be belated government spending on preparing for No Deal )

If, as would seem to be the case, we are heading into a global recession, which country do you think is going to weather the recession more strongly? The one running a trade surplus and part of a major trading bloc, which has just signed a number of FTAs with other major trading nations (Japan, Canada, Singapore in the last year)?

Or the one running a deficit and which is going to make trading with its closest neighbours more difficult?

Madness

PMK

"True badkitten but there are far more serious things to worry about than brexit in my life I'm afraid.  I don't allow anything to get me down because you can't cope/deal with it if you allow it to do so. So stiff upper lip is called for sometimes, head down, shoulders into the wind and all will be well'

I've just returned home to France after my stay in GB. I couldn't believe the apathy and the 'I'm Alright Jack ' attitude that's seems so prevalent there right now.

I went worrying for everyone there and came back feeling that if people in GB are not going stand up for what they believe in and get themselves together right now, then they're just going to have to take what comes.

I am concerned for the poor people who I believe will be poorer. But, I saw a lot of wealth there too. So, a lot of people will no doubt be able to live off the fat of the land for some time to come. I hope they'll help their fellow citizens too.

Thankyou Big Choc for standing firm. I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I'm English and couldn't vote because I've lived in Europe too long. And I was told from the start that the Brexit thing was democratic. Well, from the start I disagreed that it was.

Groovie The organised psyops probably changed the vote from a narrow Remain win to a narrow Leave

issue is though:
the vote never should have been close enough for fiddling to affect the result

However, 30 years of organised incessant anti-EU propoganda trumped reason
and also a significant number of voters just took the opportunity to tell Cameron to fuck off

Only a small minority would knowingly have voted to crash the economy over a cliff
However, there seems a great lack of knowledge about what is essential for a modern country continue to function:
international trade, transport etc

Also a lack of realism about the relative strengths of a medium-sized country and the world's #2 economic bloc

Hence why so many people still believe Brexiter lies and the ridiculous promises about keeping all the EU benefits with none of the responsibilites

Even now most people, including some Remainers, believe the EU will give in at the last moment, because of their faith that the Uk is more "powerful" than the EU

... but if No Deal happens, anything the UK suffers will be because of punishment by the supposdly "weak" EU against the "strong" UK

At least the Y2k bug has some coverage - a strangely cheering post about why the world hasn't ended yet.

All this horror, just because a Tory catfight got out of hand, as Verkofstadt said
and then the PM and her MPs kept putting party before country

So they dumped us in this clusterfuck

I want an enquiry into the influence & spending of rightwing oligarchs, both British & foreign, on the Tory party and the Leave campaign,
any connections that the Mueller enquiry may raise about British politicians,
also into how the financial interests of ERG MPs may have influenced their political activities

Personally, I'd be reasonably well able to cope with No Deal, even in the UK.

However, I don't feel entitled to gamble on the tiny chance of Remain, because there are millions of other people barely coping even now
and others whose lives or health depend on meds could be at risk

They are the Brexit hostages, whom imo we can't risk
Hence, although I'd leap at the chance of a PV, I'd reluctantly settle for the WA
but be working towards Rejoin as soon as feasible

"their faith that the Uk is more "powerful" than the EU"
Yep ! ´Great' Britain and the 'United' Kingdom have become strangely paradoxical to me.

Am I right that us two, living in over on "the continent" are the only ones up bothering about this right now ? I hope not. That would be another paradox too...

Ah ! Lonelytiredandlow ! You're here.

"there are millions of other people barely coping even now^ and others whose lives or health depend on meds could be at risk^. They are the Brexit hostages, whom imo we can't risk"

I really hope for their sake that the country's lemming-like course will be stopped before it's too late.

Speaking of lateness,I'm going to have to get my beauty sleep. 😴😊

It’s the helplessness that gets me, the feeling that nothing you do makes a difference. I didn’t vote Labour in last election andvwent Lid Dem to try and unseat current MP as Labour get 6% of the vote here but If I had I (like the other poster who said it earlier) would have been lumped in with the 80% (or whatever the figure was) who voted for Parties supporting Brexit, or that’s the narrative that’s been spun on it when we all know that huge numbers of people voting wanted nothing of the sort. It’s the constant taking a situation and spinning it to create a narrative that becomes accepted when the reality is completely different.

DH and I were in a cafe recently and I started venting my rage that we were even having to think about insulin supply and my voice was rising, DH suggested I keep my voice down. I looked at him and shook my head and continued as I was saying how angry I was. If anyone cared to listen they could have heard but I don’t care, I won’t be silenced and DH apologised after and agreed I was rightnand we should not be afraid to talk normally in public as we always have done.

However nothing ever makes a difference. I was talking to a friend yesterday about a mutual friend who is dying of a very aggressive brain tumour. Chemo has halted it for a few weeks and possibly it might shrink for a bit but it’s going to come back and his decline has been quick and brutal . It was an incredibly sad conversation and one of the things we were saying is how helpless we both feel, how we desperately feel the need to do something, anything, to help and make it better. But nothing anyone can do will make it better, it can never be better.

I feel the same sense of helplessness about Brexit, which is beyond ridiculous as it is something that can be controlled. But people who need to listen aren’t and are prepared to gamble people’s lives. The Health Secretary said he can not guarantee people will not die in the event of no deal and yet here we are not much over a month to go and we are staring in the face.

We are where we are though and I would second BadKitten’s advice for self care. If we end up off the cliff edge next month survival of the fittest will be in play and those will fare the best will be those who are pragmatic and resilient . So it’s a bit like on a plane where you’re told to put your oxygen mask on before helping children.

I remember my dgd getting in a right state due to exam stress and worry to the point of getting physically sick as the exams got closer. She couldn't sleep and the stress dominated her life. I took her out and gave her some gentle advice. I said if you allow your emotions to overtake you everything you have worked hard for all these years will be for nothing. When a challenge comes along, especially one that determines the rest of your life, it must be faced full on. It must be faced almost unemotionally so that your mind can take over and focus properly on the challenge ahead. Leave your emotions, your doubts, worries, fear in a jar by the door as you enter the exam room. But above all be determined to succeed no matter what. Trust in your abilities, trust your brain, trust in yourself and all your fears will melt away and you will be able to cope. It worked, she came out with top grades in everything, some unexpectedly.
I know exams don't compare to worries over brexit but they can both be life changing. Face your demons head on. Know that you will cope with whatever happens. Believe in yourself, trust that you and yours will be fine. Things may well be bad but while you have faith that you can cope then nothing is as bad as you think. Humans are very adaptable. People fear change. But at end of the day inner strength will get you all through.

Does inner strength get you all through though Sostenueto? I can think of more than a few situations where people faced events with calm and inner strength and didn't get through at all. I think you do have to speak out and take action.

Sounds like something our new 'leathalised' govt would be interested in. I suspect we are going to focus more on our arms deals in the difficult times ahead. Yay, go UK .
I agree self care in these times is important, plus it is half term. I for one am fed up that I have spent so much of nearly 3 years feeling anxious and divided from my country. Looking at ways to escape and stockpiling - things I would never have thought possible before the referendum. It annoys me that leavers have swanned through these years without a care and have got more aggressive not less as their moment of glory approaches! I hate that I have a child who says thins like "I wish we could get out of this broken country" on her way to school when she hears the news. I didn't want this for her.
So, i'm going to try to put all Brexit thoughts aside for the day and focus on the first day of the holidays. I wonder how long I can last? flowers to everyone going through so much. You are all an inspiration on these boards.

fail!

groovie 1987 cancer of the womb. 1993 cancer of the right kidney. 2001 cancer found early right bottom lobe lung. 2010 carcinoma on back. 2018 pancreatic cancer. 2019 I'm still here! So brexit is f... all for me to worry about and get myself in too much of a state about. yes I'm worried for my family but I have all that in hand.....planing early works.

Off course you do missclimpson I too speak out and try to do something. But I'm not in a position to do much bar write to MP voice my concerns and help local food bank. But I try and do a bit.

Know that you will cope with whatever happens. Believe in yourself, trust that you and yours will be fine. Things may well be bad but while you have faith that you can cope then nothing is as bad as you think. Humans are very adaptable. People fear change. But at end of the day inner strength will get you all through.

Yes, human nature can be resilient but taken overall, this is far too glib. I think it's probably good advice when taking exams, or for the sort of person who easily gets het up over relative trivia. But 'having faith' isn't going to help the type 1 diabetic who can't get insulin, or the epileptic who can't get vital medication.

I then thought of the 6 million Jews murdered by the Nazis - unfortunately being amenable to having faith didn't help them - I suspect that many of them were too ready to believe in the goodness of human nature, and didn't realise how bad it could or would get.

OK, last post until tonight I promise!
Why does this Express link make me nervous that we haven't heard about this on mainstream news? I see it is only a 5th of our trading with US but why haven't we heard about this and what are the mutual recognitions? Yes it's all vows and no real contract, but I don't want things like fishy Mutual Recognition Agreement sliding in under the radar.

lonely have fun with dc in holidays and all will be fine

I don't think we have to take what the Express reports too seriously. I do hope that the Irish lobby in the US kill off any talk of Trade Agreements until the GFA is totally secure.