Who thinks there should be another referendum

[paprickapaull]

Who thinks there should be another referendum?
My mum says there shouldn't but my husband says there should be I'm not very sure.

What do u think?

We'd only end up with the same bloody awful result.
Can you tell I don't trust people 🤷‍♀️.

I did think there should be a second referendum, as I was convinced that people would vote to remain. I am still hopeful of this, but less confident than I was.
There have been so many mistakes along the way.
DC's Referendum in the first place.
TM's arrogance with "Brexit means Brexit", the red lines and refusing to involve others.
JC's reticence in the original Referendum and his refusal to engage at any level.
Parliament's decision to trigger Article 50, without the faintest plan.
Those who didn't vote for Yvette Cooper's very sensible recent amendment.
The list goes on.
If it wasn't for David Lammy, Yvette Cooper, Dominic Grieve and occasionally Keir Starmer, I would lose all hope altogether. I would love to see some of these people start a new party- it's the missing link, though all a bit late anyway.

Apart from the deal she negotiated, agreed to and signed.

Not irrelevant, not dismissed and not ignored.

The U.K. parliament however did dismiss her deal and has done its best to call it irrelevant.

You make valid and far better points than most on here and I agree with you. Presumably (we weren't there) the deal May negotiated with the N.I backstop was done in an conciliatory and agreeable way with both sides seeking to reach agreement.

She then brings that deal back and it is overwhelmingly rejected by the UK parliament. Not just left wingers, not just right wingers, not just Scottish and Welsh nationalists and not just Ulster Unionists, but elected politicians of all persuasions right across the board.

So she goes back to Brussels and is told .. there is no further negotiation. There is nothing more to talk about. There is this deal or no deal. There is nothing you can do to change our stance. How is this accommodating of a nation who by democratic vote have chosen to leave?

How does a people's vote, a second referendum or any of that come into play when the E.U themselves have said that no further negotiation is possible?

Thank you Monkatron

Perhaps Jitters will go back to the day job?

The way some of you just dismiss the opinion of significant proportions of the population because you don't agree with it is frightening .

Disagreeing with people, and considering their opinions wrong/ ill informed/ damaging to the country, is called "opposition" and it's an essential part of a healthy democracy.

There are plenty of people who dismiss vaccines as being a plot by big pharma, and who dismiss climate change as being a plot by liberals intent on one-world government. Those opinions, held by a not insignifiant part of the population, certainly can be dismissed, because they are wrong/stupid/paranoid/anti-scientific. In the same way much of the blatantly fantasist bollocks spouted by brexiters can be dismissed, because it's simply wrong.

I'm at the point of not really caring very much whether Brexit happens; I've priced it in, if you like. But I do still mind very much people using weasel words to shut down opposition and debate. That's what's frightening, not a bunch of women on an Internet forum calling out stupidity and venality when they see it.

I do.

It was an advisory referendum that was not communicated as such and has since the result been treated as binding.

A tremendous fuck up.

May's deal is the one we'll end up with. She's just playing time now. Everybody wants to avoid no deal situation so she'll gather enough support to push it through.

If you can't understand something because it's missing a couple of apostrophes that doesn't make it incomprehensible. It means your comprehension skills are lacking. Much like interpreting an organisation engaging in a negotiation with someone as ignoring them.

Nah!

It just means that when someone puts a lot of time and effort into writing a post, and some smart arse who has barely read it, fires back with an abrupt, short, poorly written, spiteful, unpunctuated and incomprehensible response, then it deserves to be replied to.

Perhaps Jitters will go back to the day job?

Could you actually be any more dismissive and patronising?

I read what you wrote and it was grossly inaccurate clap-trap.

How is this accommodating of a nation who by democratic vote have chosen to leave?

But why should the EU be "accommodating" of a nation which does not wish to be a member? We're back in cake and eat it terroritory here: you want to not be a member, but be treated like one all the same.

I'd add that the EU has been accommodating: the original offer to Cameron was far more generous than I would have expected, and the WA includes some surprising concessions. But no concessions will never be good enough for the ERG and I suspect that the EU understands this now.

How does a people's vote, a second referendum or any of that come into play when the E.U themselves have said that no further negotiation is possible?

She could win a vote using the carrot of a new referendum. A Noel Edmunds style Deal or No Deal, run by Chris Grayling

Could you actually be any more dismissive and patronising?

You always criticise what i do! i'll try harder next time

they gave her what she wanted, especially in regard to the backstop and a uk wide CU, if it were triggered.

Yes, this. It was a surprising concession, negotiated in good faith by the EU, but in bad faith by the British.

The reason there is no negotiation possible is because of May's own red lines. She chose to publish these red lines in advance of the negotiation, leaving the EU with no option but to go for the arrangement she has ended up with. They take the GFA seriously and want to protect members which obviously includes the Republic of Ireland. There is no other immediately available way to do this. If you have an idea, please say what it is!

Why should the EU27 accommodate our wishes which clearly threaten the GFA and the integrity of their own borders when we want to leave? There is no sensible reason on earth why anyone should wish to threaten the GFA, least of all the UK who will suffer almost as much as Ireland and NI if it is breached. And there is no sensible reason on earth why a club should prioritise the wishes of a soon to be ex-member rather than an enthusiastic member.

A people's vote comes into play because there is no consensus in parliament for any of the options on the table, there is no negotiation possible, and there is no leadership from either front bench. Therefore we should give the people a chance to say what they want to happen. Perhaps then, we could get a consensus in parliament on voting for whatever the people of the UK would like to see happen.

May's deal is the one we'll end up with. She's just playing time now. Everybody wants to avoid no deal situation so she'll gather enough support to push it through.

This thread is moving so fast and tempers getting frayed that I missed this post.

I'm sorry I can't find the name of whoever posted it but I'm really interested in what you have to say.

Can I ask why you think this is the case? Genuinely would like to hear more of what you have to say.

Jitters I thought your post was really good

The reason there is no negotiation possible is because of May's own red lines.

This x 100. She's fervently anti-immigration, always has been, and this fuels all her decisions.

The reason there is no negotiation possible is because of May's own red lines. She chose to publish these red lines in advance of the negotiation, leaving the EU with no option but to go for the arrangement she has ended up with. They take the GFA seriously and want to protect members which obviously includes the Republic of Ireland. There is no other immediately available way to do this. If you have an idea, please say what it is!

Why should the EU27 accommodate our wishes which clearly threaten the GFA and the integrity of their own borders when we want to leave? There is no sensible reason on earth why anyone should wish to threaten the GFA, least of all the UK who will suffer almost as much as Ireland and NI if it is breached. And there is no sensible reason on earth why a club should prioritise the wishes of a soon to be ex-member rather than an enthusiastic member.

A people's vote comes into play because there is no consensus in parliament for any of the options on the table, there is no negotiation possible, and there is no leadership from either front bench. Therefore we should give the people a chance to say what they want to happen. Perhaps then, we could get a consensus in parliament on voting for whatever the people of the UK would like to see happen.

Good post Epanoui and lots of food for thought there.

May's deal is the one we'll end up with. She's just playing time now. Everybody wants to avoid no deal situation so she'll gather enough support to push it through.

I don't think this is guaranteed but it's probably the most likely outcome.

Very difficult to predict with any certainty though, because all the potential outcomes are "unlikely" on the face of it, and you're relying on the votes of people (MPs) who have been slow to understand the realities of the situation (on both sides - I tend to agree with Sabine Weyand that the remain side is guilty of some unicorn-hunting too).

Jitters I thought your post was really good

Thank you Duckshead

I'm just trying to put a point of view as others are

x

Yes to please keep the posts short!

No, we should not have another referendum. Leave will win. It will be brutal and it will be long. Even Gina Miller thinks it is too late.

I saw a great post on twitter:

I don't know about you, but if we have to have riots, I'd rather have the 'OMG they cancelled Brexit' riot than the 'there's nothing to eat' riot, the 'the banks have closed' root, the 'they abolished the NHS' riot and the 'they shot rioters' riot

So I would love another referendum, providing it reverses the previous (ADVISORY, NEVER INTENDED TO BE BINDING) one...

Yes to please keep the posts short!

No one is forced to read long posts.

That's the joy of forums such as this, you can choose to read or you can scroll on by.

I wrote a long post on this thread because it was something I was genuinely interested in and cared about ... and it was suggested I 'go back to the day job'.

I've been on Mumsnet for the best part of 20 years, and I don't think I've ever seen it like it is now. Very sad.

Of course we should have another referendum - and one that does not include No Deal, since that would be so disastrous.
I don't accept that everyone wants No Deal: I think that's just what people are being led to believe.

As it stands, we have no idea what The People actually want, yet we're preparing to crash out of the EU on the marginal result of a highly dubious referendum.
The least we can do is to actually find out what the true public opinion is, now we all know so much more than we did back in 2016.

May's Deal or No Brexit.