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Brexit

Who thinks there should be another referendum

510 replies

paprickapaull · 11/02/2019 19:23

Who thinks there should be another referendum?
My mum says there shouldn't but my husband says there should be I'm not very sure.

What do u think?

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 07:29

And a chronic mansplainer

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 07:36

It’s those in their 60s and 70s who voted to leave en made

Yes because they have seen what UK was like before and after EU. If they voted leave then they obviously preferred UK when it was not in EU

Remember the over 60's represent a massive % of the total UK population. Anywhere between 20% and 25% depending on whose numbers you look at. On a population of 67 million that is anywhere between 13.4 and 16.7 million people all of which are eligible to vote.

That's why I think a 2nd referendum would not help. If the grey vote as it is sometimes referred to turned out en mass and the theory that it is their age group that resulted in leave being the majority decision might be an even bigger majority next time?

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 07:40

I'm old too @MissedTheBoatAgain . Try a better explanation.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 07:42

Not going to get drawn into this again and have someone who hasn’t lived here for decades and should keep their trap shut wind me up today, which is of course the objective

Nobody is forced to read these threads or comment.

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 07:42

Power cuts, three day week, bread shortages, BL strikes. Such happy days in the early 70s. I remember them so well.

Mistigri · 12/03/2019 07:48

Missedtheboat is a person who claims to vote illegally in the UK in contravention of the 15 year rule, despite having lived abroad for 30 years.

Just so we we are all clear.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 07:50

I'm old too @MissedTheBoatAgain . Try a better explanation

My post was in reply to:

It’s those in their 60s and 70s who voted to leave en made

So someone on this thread thinks that only elderly people voted leave? I am not convinced. Other age groups will have voted leave too just as there would have been a range of age groups who voted remain.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 07:54

is a person who claims to vote illegally in the UK

Incorrect. My time in the UK in the Tax year 2016-2017 made me temporarily resident as I was between Contracts.

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 07:54

That's correct. I know older people who voted Remain and young university educated people who voted Leave. Just as you can't make sweeping statements about ex-pat views - although you have done this - you can't make sweeping statements about generational voting.

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 07:55

And you are an expert on fiddling the system for tax and residence purposes too.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 07:56

Power cuts, three day week, bread shortages, BL strikes. Such happy days in the early 70s. I remember them so well

Nothing to do with EU.

Power cuts due to dispute with miners and UK Government. However, Mrs. Thatcher abolished miner after the 1984/1985 strike

BL strikes over pay due to high inflation in the UK

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 07:58

And you are an expert on fiddling the system for tax and residence purposes too

I let Accountant and Tax Adviser (former HMRC inspector) deal with such issues.

zippey · 12/03/2019 07:59

Democracy is always good, so yes there should be another vote.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 08:02

Democracy is always good, so yes there should be another vote

And another if the result is remain?

Can't work out how someone can say;

2016 referendum was wrong and therefore can be rejected, but another referendum would be more accurate?

Peregrina · 12/03/2019 08:03

MissedTheBoat's accountant isn't clever enough - he should be helping him to avoid all UK tax.

I remember the sixties and seventies well, and no, I don't want to go back. (But I voted Remain, so not typical of my demographic.) T93 year old MIL voted Remain, who was old enough to be involved in war work.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 08:10

MissedTheBoat's accountant isn't clever enough - he should be helping him to avoid all UK tax

Income arising in the UK is subject to UK Tax Legislation even if the individual is non-resident. It is foreign earnings that HMRC can't touch.

Last year's UK Tax bill barely crept over the 4 figure mark. As the total UK income exceeded 50K I thought the accountant did a good job. HMRC never challenge the accountants numbers. However, the benefits of receiving income via Ltd Companies is diminishing as time passes.

time4chocolate · 12/03/2019 08:14

MissedTheBoat's accountant isn't clever enough - he should be helping him to avoid all UK tax

If you know anything about accountancy/tax and minimising costs then avoiding paying any UK tax at all would not be clever.

JRMisOdious · 12/03/2019 08:15

“Mistigri

I find it quite upsetting that there are remainers who think that the voice of the British in Europe doesn't deserve to be heard. We are the single most affected group: Brexit affects my right to vote (after Brexit, I have fewer voting rights than a Victorian woman), it affects my right to be a carer for my elderly mum if she needs me, it affects my job (British company), it affects my rights to continue to live in my own home.

Also, and I can't speak for the Brits in Spain, but I don't know anyone living in France who voted leave. Most didn't vote at all because of the 15 year rule or the shambles of the postal vote system, but I have often been surprised to learn that people defied stereotypes and voted remain”

Came back in again because I wanted to apologise for being offensive to you Mistigri. Been thinking about this a lot overnight, about other people’s comments. You’re right, of course, there are many people living and working in Europe with every right to express their opinion via the UK ballot box, they are British citizens with every intention of returning home.
The group I am so angry with, and it’s such a visceral thing that the red mist descends so no, I probably don’t consider the bigger, far more nuanced picture, are the retirees who have made their permanent homes in EU countries, cut all ties with the UK and have absolutely no intention of ever returning. People in their 60/70s whose lives won’t be negatively affected by my country being cut adrift (unless of course there’s no deal and they’re all sent packing, though I doubt that possibility entered their heads) contributed to this appalling outcome that will negatively affect my childrens’ lives for decades. They should have a right to a say in that when my 16 year old son has none? I do unfortunately personally know people in that group in Spain who did vote to leave: went to great lengths to exercise their “right” with much flag waving jingoism and apparent disdain for their European hosts. Ask them now if they plan then to return to these glorious new sunny uplands when the decision they played a part in implementing is enacted? A hollow laugh and not on your life is the usual response. It’s disgusting.

Would reiterate though, we would like to retire to Portugal but for practical reasons beyond our control it is unlikely. If it were to happen though, and in the specific circumstance of not intending to return, I would not consider that I had the moral right to vote in UK elections for 15 years thereafter, I would consider that I had that right where I lived, where the implications of my vote could possibly affect me personally. If we then found we had to return to the UK for whatever reason years later, we would just have to adapt to the circumstances that had evolved during the absence we had chosen.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 08:17

If you know anything about accountancy/tax and minimising costs then avoiding paying any UK tax at all would not be clever

Thanking you time4chocolate. Exactly what my account advised.

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 08:21

Yes, having an accountant, we all do, dahling, for our portfolio, dontcha know. How like the life of the majority of people in the uk this sounds like. Hmm

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 08:21

I do unfortunately personally know people in that group in Spain who did vote to leave: went to great lengths to exercise their “right” with much flag waving jingoism and apparent disdain for their European hosts. Ask them now if they plan then to return to these glorious new sunny uplands when the decision they played a part in implementing is enacted? A hollow laugh and not on your life is the usual response

The perceived benefit to those you describe is that if UK goes into freefall and the pounds takes a nosedive then it will cost them less to visit UK which they probably do even if they do not intend to return to UK permanently.

expatinspain · 12/03/2019 08:23

Yes I do. Everyone has more idea about the real implications now.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 12/03/2019 08:25

Yes, having an accountant, we all do, dahling, for our portfolio, dontcha know. How like the life of the majority of people in the uk this sounds like

The number of self employed and sole director limited companies in the UK has grown a lot over the last 2 decades.

PlausibleSuit · 12/03/2019 08:27

Here's what I reckon.

I think we'll see a series of extensions to article 50. I don't think there'll be a second referendum. There's too much variation on what the question should be, how much weight it should carry versus the previous two, and the bad optics of stirring up two opposing sides once again.

But I think the continued pressure to have a second referendum will be used as a kind of barometer of the public mood. At some point, maybe two or three years down the line, there'll be some kind of arbitrary decision made that 'the public mood has shifted' and that will become the dominant narrative. It'll be a referendum without having a referendum, if that makes sense.

Whatever you think, however you voted, very few people are looking at how this has gone and saying, 'yes referendums are a great way of making decisions' because they are self-evidently blunt, inaccurate operations offering close results that make no one happy.

Truth is, neither May nor Corbyn (or indeed the EU) seem to have a genuine willingness to push this one through. They're kicking the can down the road while making lots of noise about how they're not. Neither wants to be anywhere near the can, but they both give out a lot of hot air about how the can's contents are really important. In short, it's clear that no one wants to own the act of leaving, but they need to own the narrative of intending to leave. At least for now.

At some point, probably late 2020s, after a decade of extensions and several changes of government, I think article 50 will be quietly revoked because we'll all be (quite rightly) far more worried about AI and automation by then.

bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 08:29

I'm sure it has. But Leave conned people who have no money or need to have an accountant into doing something that suits unscrupulous people who need an accountant.

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