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Brexit

Westminstenders: Competitive Stupidity

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 10/02/2019 16:00

A week of wondering which MP is going to be the most dumb.

There is stiff competition between parties and remain / leave.

Expect incredible bids of ignorance and incompetence to curl your toes, with a bit of constitutional craziness thrown in for good measure.

Valentine's Day beckons...

... And so does the No Deal Divorce.

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BiglyBadgers · 11/02/2019 17:18

I find it fascinating to watch a group of people like this turn on someone and try and shut them down. I mean, I've read about it and stuff but it is interesting to watch it happen.

Poor delicate flower. Do you need a safe space? 😂

StepLadders007 · 11/02/2019 17:18

You aren't being shut down

No, people use words like "thick cunt" "neo-Nazo" "right wing racist" and my personal favourite "jew hater" (or words to that effect) when they are most definitely not trying to shut you down.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2019 17:19

Scotland can't get rid of this godawful government, that most of thm didn't vote for
There is no Article 50 for Scotland to invoke to leave the UK

Scotland - and NI - can only hold referendum on leaving the UK if Westminster allows them

Scotland and NI voted for Remain, but are being dragged out by English votes

StepLadders007 · 11/02/2019 17:21

Poor delicate flower. Do you need a safe space

No, I'm fine thanks, I was just commenting on the interesting experience.

jasjas1973 · 11/02/2019 17:21

I won't be shutdown

No one minds well thought out sincere views but you come out with nonsense, get found out, ignore and then just move onto to more garbage.

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2019 17:22

Scotland - and NI - can only hold referendum on leaving the UK if Westminster allows them

Actually I believe Scotland technically has the ability to hold a non binding advisory referendum if it wanted to cause mischief, a right old constitutional nightmare and riots.

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StepLadders007 · 11/02/2019 17:22

Explaining reality to others is not shutting them down

Calling someone a Jew Hater because they used the word "globalism" is not, in any way, reality.

DGRossetti · 11/02/2019 17:23

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6691993/Michel-Barnier-vows-EU-WONT-ground-Brexit-deal.html

dailymail.co.uk
Barnier vows that the EU WON'T give any more ground on Brexit deal
By James Tapsfield, Political Editor, For Mailonline
8-9 minutes

Michel Barnier today vowed that the EU will not make any more concessions on the Brexit deal - insisting the UK must give ground.

The chief negotiator launched a combative attack on the 'negative' British stance ahead of a meeting with Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay.

Meanwhile, Luxembourg PM Xavier Bettel jibed that the UK was actually a 'disunited kingdom', accusing Eurosceptics of only being willing to say 'no, no, no'.

The intervention came as Theresa May desperately battles to find a way through the political deadlock, with less than seven weeks to go until the exit date.

Chief negotiator Michel Barnier launched a combative attack on the 'negative' British stance ahead of a meeting with Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay

Mr Barnier was speaking after holding talks with Xavier Bettel (pictured right) - who jibed that the UK was a 'disunited kingdom'

Mrs May was today forced to quell Tory fears that she is about to cave into Jeremy Corbyn's demand for a permanent customs union with the EU.

Mrs May had caused panic in Tory ranks by appearing to open the door to a grand bargain in a letter to the Labour leader.

But her hopes of finding a way through that satisfied Tory Brexiteers was dealt another blow this afternoon as Mr Barnier said 'something has to give on the British side'.
Up to 60 Labour MPs 'looking for ways' to back May's Brexit deal

Up to 60 Labour MPs are 'actively looking for ways' to support the PM's Brexit deal, it was claimed today.

Wigan MP Lisa Nandy said she would not support Theresa May's plans in their current form.

But she said many of her colleagues were keen to get a package agreed.

The comments came as Mrs May confirmed she is ready to give commitments on the environment and workers' rights as she woos Opposition backing.

There have also been claims the government is looking to pump money into Brexit-voting areas to secure votes.

Ms Nandy told the BBC's Politics Live 40-60 Labour MPs were 'actively looking for ways to support this at the moment'.

Mr Barnier is due to meet Mr Barclay for dinner later but warned 'clarity' on the fate of the deal must 'come from London'.

Speaking in Luxembourg this afternoon, he said: 'It's in London where they have to find the ways and means to build a positive majority between the two negative majorities that exist today in the House of Commons.

'We stand ready to give all necessary explanations and all necessary guarantees on the withdrawal agreement act, as have already done the two Presidents Juncker and Tusk.

'We stand ready to rework with the British the content of the political declaration that sets the frame.

'Maybe there's a way to explain better, to have more ambition, to put into perspective the content of the accord, and the backstop.'

Urging Mrs May to consider the 'interesting in tone and in content' Labour position, he warned 'something has to give on the British side'.

Meanwhile, Mr Bettel told the same press conference that the UK is a 'disunited kingdom' where pro-Brexit politicians lack ideas and courage.

He moaned that the ongoing uncertainty in London 'puts us in a position where we don't know what is likely to happen tomorrow'.

'The position of the Brexiteers today, to sum it up in one sentence is `No. No, no and no.' There aren't any alternative proposals from them,' Mr Bettel said.

Laughing, he added: 'It is, in fact, the same protagonists for Brexit and a no-deal who do not have the courage either to put the issue to a peoples' vote.'

Theresa May (pictured in Downing Street today) has been forced to quell Tory fears that she is about to cave into Jeremy Corbyn's demand for a permanent customs union with the EU
What are the options for reworking the Irish border backstop?

The EU has flatly dismissed calls for the Withdrawal Agreement to be reopened.

But Theresa May has promised MPs that she will somehow get legally-binding changes that satisfy concerns about the Irish border backstop.

Here are some possible options for how the PM might seek to get through the impasse.

A unilateral exit clause

Prominent backbenchers including former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab has pushed Mrs May to seek a unilateral get-out from the backstop.

The current mechanism can only be deactivated through a joint review system - although the EU insists it is technically 'temporary'.

But Brussels has insisted that an 'insurance policy' that can be ended by one side is not acceptable.

Expiry date

A hard end date to the backstop would allay the fears of most Tory MPs - as long as it is not too far in the future.

Boris Johnson has suggested he could vote for the deal if she manages to get a time limit, although he also said it should conclude before the next election in May 2022.

The former foreign secretary also unhelpfully insisted a legal 'codicil' - an amendment which would run alongside the Withdrawal Agreement - would not be enough to win him over and he wants the whole thing unpicked.

Again, the EU has insisted it will not agree to a backstop that is time limited.

The 'Malthouse Compromise'

Tory Remainers and Brexiteers have been working on a proposal to replace the backstop with a looser, Canada-style free trade arrangements. The plan would deploy technology in a bid to avoid a hard border.

But Brussels has already dismissed the technogical solutions as 'magical thinking', saying the systems needed do not yet exist.

Guarantees that the backstop will only be 'temporary'

The EU's top official, Martin Selmayr floated the idea of 'unzipping' the Withdrawal Agreement and inserting new guarantees about the 'temporary' nature of the backstop during meetings with MPs.

He suggested the text of recent letters from Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker could be cut and pasted in without reopening other terms.

But that would be highly unlikely to satisfy Brexiteers.
What will happen next in the unfolding Brexit drama?

Valentine's Day

MPs will hold another round of votes on Brexit.

They are not due to pass judgement on Theresa May's deal - instead debating a 'neutral' motion simply saying that they have considered the issue.

However, a range of amendments are set to be tabled. They could include proposals to delay the Brexit date beyond March 29.

Labour is pushing a change that would force another 'meaningful vote' on the PM's Brexit deal by February 26, regardless of whether she has finished renegotiating the package with the EU.

February 24-25

Mrs May could have an opportunity to seal a new package with fellow EU leaders at a joint summit with the Arab League in Sharm el-Sheikh.

However, it is not clear how many will attend the gathering - or whether she will have completed the deal by then.

February 27

Downing Street is trying to head off a potential Tory Remainer mutiny by promising MPs will get another set of votes by this date regardless of whether there is a final deal.

March 21-22

The PM will attend a scheduled EU summit in Brussels that would effectively be the last opportunity to get agreement.

Some MPs fear that Mrs May is trying to delay for as long as possible, and might even try to hold a make-or-break vote in the Commons on March 26. That would be just 72 hours before Brexit, giving them a very stark deal-or-no-deal choice.

11pm, March 29

The UK is due to leave the EU with or without a deal, unless the Article 50 process is extended with approval from the bloc's leaders, or revoked to cancel Brexit altogether.

FishesaPlenty · 11/02/2019 17:25

No, people use words like "thick cunt"

I'm not trying to shut you down at all. I'm just pointing out to you that anyone who uses Breitbart (and that weird Macedonian website which seems to suggest that NATO is a Nazi organisation Confused) to try and prove a point obviously lacks the intelligence to be able to evaluate 'news' properly.

prettybird · 11/02/2019 17:25

I promise not to try and shut you down if you link to the 500 page Brexit White Paper that you assured us albeit on a different thread had all the required detail Stepladders007 Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2019 17:25

Neo-Nazi was a description of Breitbart and is accurate

Linking to that kind of site - when there are reputable Leave sites like e.g. Richard North - naturally gives us a picture of where your politics lie

Why not start reading his blog:

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87144

I disagree with his aims and some of his views, but he gives source material and makes excellent well-researched daily presentations from a Leave pov.

Far from being an echo chamber here, we do link and quote to Leavers who actually have facts and do decent quality research,
instead of dredging the Breitbart toilet

StepLadders007 · 11/02/2019 17:26

I honestly do think that the people in the pockets of the EU (May for example) will engineer another referendum, in fact, it's almost inevitable.

We were never going to be allowed to leave.

StepLadders007 · 11/02/2019 17:27

instead of dredging the Breitbart toilet

I've stated twice now why I posted the link. If you still want to call me a Neo Nazi it is because you are willfully ignoring what I posted.

Destiel · 11/02/2019 17:28

Aw.

Step...

U ok hun?

StepLadders007 · 11/02/2019 17:29

to try and prove a point

I wasn't trying to "prove a point" the topic, briefly, was about Hungarians.
If you could tell me what point I was trying to make I'll apologise.

jasjas1973 · 11/02/2019 17:29

@DRG
Respect Grin you have more patience than I do. Hope you haven't lost too much intelligence ....

I hate out of context, selective quotes! Halo

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2019 17:31

MPs negotiating with each other again and assuming the EU will fall in with this
More delay in voting

Steven Swinfordd@Steven*_Swinford

New:

Cooper/ Boles amendment will NOT be tabled this week if PM commits to amendable motion by end of month

Under new plan PM would be forced to request A50 extension if she has no deal by March 14

Length of extension will be for Govt to determine subject to MP's approval
...

The new Cooper/Boles bill will have two effects:

One is obvious - it would force Govt to extend A50 if no deal is reached by March 14.

The other, which may broaden appeal, is that it would mean Govt is likely to have to hold the meaningful vote in the first half of March

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2019 17:33

You brought up something about Hungary, which I haven't read because the link was Breitbart

jasjas1973 · 11/02/2019 17:33

We were never going to be allowed to leave

...and you are surprised you get called a TC !!!

We had a deal with the EU to leave... it was signed sealed & delivered on the EUs part.
The UK decided they didn't want the deal our PM negotiated and signed.

It is the UK stopping the UK from leaving.

As i said you really do keep coming out with nonsense.

prettybird · 11/02/2019 17:33

Red - indeed, Scotland could choose to hold a non-binding advisory referendum if Westminster refused to grant the Section 30 notice, but then it would be in the Catalonian situation of potentially being open to legal challenge for constitutional over-reach Angry

And more importantly (and relevantly), Spain would then veto Scotland's accession to the EU (and would refuse to recognise Scotland as an independent country) Sad, which, given that the Scottish Government wants to be part of the EU (it as a minimum EFTA), would be a real problem.

As long as Scotland follows due constitutional process, Spain has said it won't veto.

Hazards · 11/02/2019 17:35

Destie now whose feeding the Terribly Real Obvious Lovely Lady?

StepLadders007 · 11/02/2019 17:35

What is a TC?

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2019 17:35

Calling someone a Jew Hater because they used the word "globalism" is not, in any way, reality.

I didn't call you a jew hater. I called you an unwitting closet neo nazi sympathiser for quoting the mouth piece of American Bannonites and Corporate Bond Baddies Inc (who happily support voter repression and removal of the vote from large sections of the public who happen not to be Rich White Dudes) uncritically whilst you simultaneously prattle on about hating globalisation and how the EU will result in us being ruled by some sort of Evil Beings who we won't be able to vote to get rid of, despite holding European Elections. Without a shred of irony.

You know you could at less have a coherent and consistent argument and get what the point that if you are getting your information from Breitbart you might want to check out their neo nazi agenda.

If you want to use it as a source that's your prerogative but expect to get short shrift for your monumental cognitive dissonance and wilful ignorance.

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Destiel · 11/02/2019 17:36

But I'm genuinely concerned hazard! 😂😂

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2019 17:43

Red - indeed, Scotland could choose to hold a non-binding advisory referendum if Westminster refused to grant the Section 30 notice, but then it would be in the Catalonian situation of potentially being open to legal challenge for constitutional over-reach

Of course it'd be over reach. Is No Deal over reach? In 2019 batshit self harming politics in the party interest over the national interest are all the rage. We'd be stupid to rule out the possibility simply on the basis that no politician would be that self serving and destructive...

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