Westminstenders: It's oh so quiet...

[RedToothBrush]

It's oh so quiet // It's oh so still // You're all alone // And so peaceful until

You ring the news // Bim bam // You shout and you yell // Hi ho ho // You broke the spell // Gee, this is swell you almost have a fit // Brexit is fab and I got hit // There's no mistake get on with it

'Til it's over and then // It's nice and quiet //
Shh shh // But soon again // Shh shh // Uh oh let's start a big riot

You blow a fuse // Zing boom // The devil cuts loose // Zing boom // What's the use
Wow bam // Of leaving the EU

It's gone quiet.

May was supposed to go on a tour of the EU to get concessions. She hasn't.

Instead we are currently stuck in an internal never ending debate about Alternative Arrangements (which is being abbreved too A. A. by less convinced souls) and how Germany got all the money from Marshall Aid (it didn't) and how navy ships can suddenly sprout front opening hulls to become roll on roll off ferries to emulate the spirit of Dunkirk. One of our greatest ever military defeats, which merely had good PR.

The idea that there is going to be any shift in position between now and 14th Feb seems unlikely. It suits the EU and it suits the ERG to be blunt about it. It does not suit the UK national interest though.

Instead our livihoods and futures are slowly drip, drip, dripping away. Invisible to those loved up on the idea of Leaving. But like a newly wed, how long does that feeling last? 42% of British marriages end in divorce after all. When do people fall out of love with Brexit?

The revelation of the need for the WAIB is scary too. The WAIB is the Withdrawal Agreement Implementation Bill. You can read more about it here:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1091734003265224708.html
Well I say you can read about it, but from the thread you can see that the WAIB hasn't been published yet. And for us to Brexit without a legal and constitutional nightmare parliament needs to pass both the WA And the WAIB. And if you thought it was difficult to get the WA through just wait until you clap eyes on the WAIB details.

With this in mind there are noises from the ERG about an A50 extension. Y'know the one we can't have unless the EU think it's it their interests too.

mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/the-uk-rips-out-its-eu-law-drip,-only-to-hook-up-to-another
More on the WAIB.

Of course there is a more sinister explanation: May does indeed intend to no deal and or use civil contingency law to pass the WAIB in whatever form she sees fit without parliamentary scrutiny.

Tick, tick, tick.

A friend told me today not to worry about brexit as "we survived before and we'll survive again". I didn't say much. My history lessons were rather grimmer in reminding me, that the ones who didn't survive don't get to be so optimistic.

MaryJoyce Which particular laws did you oppose that the EU brought in ?

The Uk was only outvoted in about 2% of EU decisions

The UK when it objected, usually fought against laws e.g. requiring clean beaches, without sewage and laws
requiring agency workers to have rights like equal paid holidays,
laws against tax evasion by multinational companies and wealthy individuals, or monopolies
The UK - until Blair cancelled this - used to have an optout to the social chapter extending workers rights.

Basically, the UK fought against things that woud help ordinary people and / try to make very wealthy people and large businesses pay their fair share

Frank. As I just said if read my post you have your answer

About our debts as you call them I’m talking about

Thanks, red I must read that thread !

Bloody forriners eh @Maryjoyce. Giving us rights and safety standards. Who the fuck do they think they are?!

Bigchoc. As i clearly said it was set up as a trade agreement and not meant to poke its noses into our everyday life what part of that didn’t you understand

Maryjoyce your answer is no answer in the traditional sense. It's just a repetition of the same old mantras without any semblance of truth. Poking their noses into our lives...you mean passing legislation endorsed by our own representatives to ensure our lives are better - environmental standards, health and safety, employment. For what it's worth each nation has a fair amount of leeway to enforce these regulations so not one size fits all. Surely you are aware of that ?

maryjoyce The part I didn't understand is what part of everyday life?
What specific laws from the EU do you object to ?

Sure if you want big or small companies, landowners, landlords or whoever just to ride roughshod over ordinary people that's fine but I don't get it

As I said you miss the point it was a trade agreement not meant to be a second higher government but maybe most of you are too young to realise and know that

Lots of people they think they know better till the day it goes wrong.

I think we could all agree with this.

Where did I say I object to a specific law? I object to the whole thing not just one thing

Anyway I need get on for now I’ll leave you all to plan for the end of the world

Where did I say I object to a specific law? I object to the whole thing not just one thing

The whole thing? Clean beaches and all?

This is what our Prime Minister said back in December 1972, at the time we were joining the EEC.

The Community we are joining is far more than a common market. It is a community in the true sense of that term. It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union and other major economic issues - important though they are - but also, as the Paris Economic Summit meeting has demonstrated, with social issues that affect us all [.......] It is, in brief, concerned with improving the quality of life of the peoples of Europe.

HTH

So the blue flag scheme is not an EU one then? Well you learn something new every day.

You also learn that people haven't studied the history of what's now the EU but how it originally came into being as the European Coal and Steel Community, and what the aims were.

How does the EU interfere in our health and housing policies? I must admit, I wish they would - we could do with some German efficiency in both of these.

I do wonder what would have happened if Leasdom had become PM.
We would have crashed out immediately, but at least Redwood and Co wouldn't have had time to get their money out, so wouldn't be making a fortune off the backs of the rest of us. The shit would have hit the fan, and we would probably have petitioned to get back in now.

Peregrina. Take something out of context proves what ? That you have just learnt to read and what to impress us with your new skill ?

A little story about all these rules the 'EU' impose on the UK.

There was one thing that wound my Dad up more than anything else during the referendum, and that was the stuff about the EU imposing rules on us. He'd start shouting at the TV in frustration over it.

My Dad did a lot in the past advising about the use of pesticides and handling them safely. The advisory body he helped, advised the government.

The British government then went to the EU and said 'Oi! You aren't using pesticides particularly safety, we should have some europe wide rules on this.' So the British Government led the way and pretty much drafted the EU rules which the EU then accepted and now all have to abide by.

So in effect, the British government imposed laws on the rest of Europe through the EU, which helped us to be more competitive without having to damage the environment or be a safety risk to the public.

Yay! We should say. How fab is that, that WE got something through the EU that suited us and improved standards throughout the rest of the EU.

It also goes a long way to explaining why the UK also heavily enforces EU rules, perhaps more than other countries - because many were our rules and we thought they were important. Not that there were nasty Frenchmen or Germans dreaming up annoying rules for our inconvience. Nope it was Brits like my Dad who were doing all the work that led to many, many of these rules.

And now we are leaving the EU, to get rid of all the nasty EU red tape.

We are not ripping up pointless stuff, we are ripping up the work of Brits who are leaders in their field, because we've had enough of experts.

Funnily enough, a few weeks ago I ended up having a drunken conversation with a complete stranger in the pub over Brexit (he was talking to the barman and I chipped in). It turned out he was a Health and Safety officer in deepest darkest Derbyshire who was despairing over it all, as he was saying that cutting all this red tape will end up killing people.

I am old enough to remember that joining the EEC was not just a trade agreement

I am old enough to remember joining the EEC too, prettybird. I am also old enough to remember that Harold Wilson was a sight more crafty than Cameron was, but this craftiness meant that he didn't take sides, because he knew that would mean the vote would be a proxy vote about his Premiership.

Big question - will there be a shortage of hairgrips, to do whatever one does with hairgrips?

Thanks “Bellinisurge” - I am doing yoga weekly, will have to do it more often. I have been recovered from depression for 18 months and now the uncertainty is bringing it back. I know lots of other people have massive worries too. Its a comfort to be able to share. Anyway, will stop turning this thread into a personal worry board

BCF I don't know what a majority would vote for, no one does, not even them!
Likely as not, they'll cave in and vote for her deal with some sort of legal codicil on the backstop + a new non binding PD referencing a CU.
However, as this wont appease the ERG, so will May even support this? party unity and all that!

I still think we might end up with a PV or a GE.