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Brexit
Original poster

Why are people being so utterly vile?

304 replies

WrongKindOfFace · 03/02/2019 20:10

Not on here, but online in general. I know tensions are running high, and people have very polarised viewpoints, but the level of vitriol and blatant racism is shocking. I’ve come to accept it as normal from the likes of the daily mail comments, but it’s even on Facebook - with their photo, name and place of work attached.

(And yes, before anyone says it, remainers can be pretty unpleasant calling leavers thick etc.)

OP posts:
LadyKalila · 05/02/2019 07:34

So many insults directed at anyone who voted leave.

Sadly this shows a lack of understanding of the word democracy.

NopeNi · 05/02/2019 07:37

Democracy doesn't mean exemption from criticism for utter stupidity.

Hotterthanahotthing · 05/02/2019 07:50

How come nobody here is blaming the politicians for this mess.
They gave us the referendum,they voted to go with our vote and they then bickered for 2 years and are still doing so and it is this that is sending us over the Next cliff not the voters.

Hotterthanahotthing · 05/02/2019 07:51

Brexit not Next.Even my autocorrect doesn't like Brexit

ivykaty44 · 05/02/2019 07:52

Hotterthanahot who voted for the MPs and put them in Westminster?

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 05/02/2019 07:57

Lady - an essential part of democracy is the freedom to criticise and protest. 'Democracy' isn't restricted to one bloody vote in June 2016. It's your understanding that is lacking, I'm afraid.

Tanith · 05/02/2019 08:01

Something else that makes me very angry is the insults directed at the EU by our own elected politicians while they busily cultivate the Americans.

Is that really what they mean by “Sovreignty” and “Getting Our Country Back” and “Making Our Own Rules” - that we go from being EU partners to US minnions?

Some people in favour might want to take a long, cool look at how the US treats its own people.

larrygrylls · 05/02/2019 08:03

It is funny that I am actually a reluctant remainder but I always come across as a leaver on these threads.

The reason is the absolute arrogant certainty of so many remainers that they are both morally and economically right.

I am sure 99% of remainers on here would also have had us in the Euro (though they will deny retrospectively having seen how bad it is).

There is very little in economics and huge systems which is certain. Sure, it looks bad over the next few years (2-7, not generations!) but after that, who knows either way.

The idea that Europe won’t want to trade with us is not realistic. And, medium term, if the Euro fails (and with it the EC), being first out and able to act unilaterally may put us in pole position.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 05/02/2019 08:09

Sure, it looks bad over the next few years (2-7, not generations!) but after that, who knows either way

Ahhh, that's so comforting, larry. Thanks.

FFS. Perhaps the reason you 'always come across as a leaver' is because you come out with glib, thoughtless crap like that?

Moussemoose · 05/02/2019 08:09

I would have gone in the Euro. However, I listened to the arguments saw how divisive it was and supported the decision to not join.

In hindsight that was a good decision I would not have made. I did however fully support the compromise.

Have you heard any leaver expressing a view with that nuance.

Leavers are not blaming the mess we are in on Remainers. Nissan are leaving and just using Brexit as an excuse. Nothing is ever the fault of the hardcore leaver. Nothing, ever.

BorisBogtrotter · 05/02/2019 08:10

"I am sure 99% of remainers on here would also have had us in the Euro"

You can't make that claim. Lots of remain supporters and organisations did not want us to go into the euro, unlike James Dyson ( funny that his credibility is never questioned because of this).

The Euro is hardly terrible either, its gained massively against the pound since its inception, brexit is likely to bring about parity.

BorisBogtrotter · 05/02/2019 08:11

BTW,

I've seen no remainer here call a leaver thick or racist. I've seen racist opinions criticised but never just a blanket " all leave voters are racist" as claimed.

Victim mentality.

Moussemoose · 05/02/2019 08:12

Leavers are not blaming the mess

Should be

Leavers are NOW blaming the mess

If only they weren't.

larrygrylls · 05/02/2019 08:15

Boris,

Do you have any memory of the Euro crisis (only 10ish years ago?) and do you realise how averaging an exchange rate across a continent locks 1/2 of it in perpetual poverty whilst benefiting the rest (have a look at Italy,Spain and Greece GDP growth since Euro inception).

Imagine if Italy decided to leave the Euro and defaulted on its Euro debt?! Have you looked at the ECB balance sheet recently?

The Euro and EC May look like a calm sea now but, beneath the surface, there are a lot of icebergs.

LadyKalila · 05/02/2019 08:22

@NopeNi Democracy doesn't mean exemption from criticism for utter stupidity.

That works both ways!!!

LadyKalila · 05/02/2019 08:25

Lady - an essential part of democracy is the freedom to criticise and protest. 'Democracy' isn't restricted to one bloody vote in June 2016. It's your understanding that is lacking, I'm afraid.

Exactly right, but it seems to me the leavers are continually throwing their toys out of their prams, because the vote didn't go their way.

I'm afraid your understanding is flawed - if we now don't have Brexit, then we will no longer have democracy as we know it.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 05/02/2019 08:30

Exactly right, but it seems to me the leavers are continually throwing their toys out of their prams, because the vote didn't go their way

I couldn't agree more, but I don't think that's what you meant to say. Freudian slip, I guess.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 05/02/2019 08:31

if we now don't have Brexit, then we will no longer have democracy as we know it

And why's that?

MuseumofInnocence · 05/02/2019 08:34

I'm afraid your understanding is flawed - if we now don't have Brexit, then we will no longer have democracy as we know it.

When did we start knowing about it? The reason I ask this is because in my opinion part of the problem is that British Democracy has largely been based on representative democracy,, and we don't have a strong long history of direct democracy. Referenda have traditionally been a rare event. The "democracy as we know it" is not a democracy we know very well, and I don't think we understand how to handle the complications that emerge between direct and representative democracy (compared to say, the Swiss, who handle such matters better).

ivykaty44 · 05/02/2019 08:38

We didn’t qualify for the euro... but then neither did other countries that went in

WhatdoImean · 05/02/2019 08:38

if we now don't have Brexit, then we will no longer have democracy as we know it

I am curious about this as well - a purely advisory referendum to gauge people's thoughts has somehow turned into a holy grail that cannot be touched.

Weird thing - Farrage was saying that "if the result was within 2%, yes, there should be another vote". Now though....

Why do people not accept that in a democracy, you are allowed to change your mind? That that is the CORE ability - you see what you like, vote for it, decide that actually no, I don't like how they have implemented that, change your mind and vote for something else.

Democracy does NOT mean you vote once... and that is it. (Hello Wigs - still in power I see? No-one allowed to change their mind for the past 200 years? Yep, Democracy in action)

twofingerstoEverything · 05/02/2019 08:57

if we now don't have Brexit, then we will no longer have democracy as we know it.
What utter nonsense.

SynecdocheSussex · 05/02/2019 09:12

a purely advisory referendum to gauge people's thoughts

“This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide”, said the flyer sent to every household before the vote. I know that technically it was advisory, but that sure didn’t sound very.

larrygrylls · 05/02/2019 09:14

‘Purely advisory’ are weasel words and, for good reason, you don’t hear anyone with real power ever saying them.

If the PM calls a referendum (wisely or unwisely) to allow the populace to make a decision, you cannot resort to legalese when the populace say what you don’t want to hear.

Having said that, a referendum is clearly not binding in perpetuity. Over time circumstances and opinions change and there is nothing wrong with asking again.

The question is how much time is reasonable and how much do circumstances need to change in order to ask again. You cannot keep asking again and again until the answer is what you want. Equally, if the deal is absolutely awful, it seems crazy not to ask again.

The problem with asking again is that another close result (either way) will only make divisions worse.

Believeitornot · 05/02/2019 09:23

The idea that Europe won’t want to trade with us is not realistic

^this spectacularly misses the point.

The UK being part of the EU made it part of one massive trading bloc. This meant that other, non EU countries would have an incentive to base their businesses in the UK because it was part of the EU. Eg Nissan and Dyson.

Leaving the EU takes us outside of that trading bloc. So if a business wants to be based in the EU, there’s no reason for them to chose the UK. We cannot offer what the EU does.

Being in the EU is about more than immigration, which is all people are latching on to. Or they’re misunderstanding the trading implications.

Personally, I think that the EU needs regular checks and balances. Being part of the EU enables that.

Now we are cutting ourselves adrift. One tiny little island which specialises in making fuck all.

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