Why are people being so utterly vile?

[WrongKindOfFace]

Not on here, but online in general. I know tensions are running high, and people have very polarised viewpoints, but the level of vitriol and blatant racism is shocking. I’ve come to accept it as normal from the likes of the daily mail comments, but it’s even on Facebook - with their photo, name and place of work attached.

(And yes, before anyone says it, remainers can be pretty unpleasant calling leavers thick etc.)

Dexra don't suppose there's any way of c&p your FT article regarding why farmers voted to leave? It's behind the paywall I think but would be very interested to read it. Thank you

Scottish independence is not about immigration or border control it’s about being treated as an equal partner. Many people don’t see us an equal partner in the UK

And still can’t see why Scottish people are allowed to take nationalistic stance and be celebrated as just and patriotic, whilst uk independent voters are nazis. Such hypocrisy

Ah the Nazis , everyone's go to insult , see footage of Leavers barracking Anna Soubry with the word Nazi.

But back to your statement , you have kind of answered yourself there, with the mention of the UK independent voters , I think what you mean is the English and the Welsh,( sorry Wales ) the Scottish and Northern Irish voted to remain in the EU. So two countries wanted to remain and two didn't. Hence the not so very united kingdom.

And add to that the fact that nobody trusts the English political class anymore (possibly because telling great big fat whopping lies whilst in public office is no longer seen as a big deal ), either here or abroad and we are where we are. 53 days to go and four fifths of fuck all sorted.

I think most people in real life are just keeping their heads down

This is what worries me. We're 53 days from falling off a cliff and yet most people are too bored / embarrassed to express an opinion.

It does make me laugh when people say they're not thick. Surely if you were thick (I include all of us) you wouldn't know.

Dunning-Kruger effect, Kenn.

Because they believe themselves to be on the side of right. So right that they've chosen to think of the other side as evil, and you can say what you want about evil people.

That applies to many leavers AND remainers.

KennDodd, same goes for people with non sense of humour.

"I have a sense of humour. I love Jim Davidson!"

Like some PPs, I’ll never be at peace with the decision to strip most of us of our EU citizen rights. The Leave vote isn’t just a difference of opinion, it takes rights and opportunities away from our children and future generations and that will never be OK.

I wasn’t expecting this, but since the referendum I haven’t felt British anymore. I don’t have another nationality to identify with, so I kind of feel stateless. It’s really weird and not very pleasant.

I don’t see the overriding point frump. I’m not pointing the finger at anyone. I don’t say at all that one side is good and one is bad. There is a case, however, for calling out hypocrisy when popular sentiment for nationalism quickly switches depending on the country and race of those concerned. It goes to show a certain bias don’t you think against anyone and anything that is English.

And myst, I ageee that we all ought stop this ‘i’ve Got a degree and a job so am not thick’ carry on. Even ‘thick’ people have an equal say in the UK, along with old people, disabled people and poor people - and even uneducated ppl. It doesn’t extend to young people of course who are not of voting age, which is either a blessing or a curse depending on how you see it. we all had to ‘come of age’.

Bohbell and others- remind yourself that soon after the referendum, a fair slab of Leave voters accepted that their vote might see family and friend out of work- but, to them, it was a price worth paying.

Just.... that.

@ivykaty44 the problem is that in Sunderland, this is already the case and has been for quite some time (well before the vote). Even many of the feted Nissan jobs are recruited via agencies on weekly contracts.

When I was growing up Sunderland was a reasonable place to live, we had a fishing industry, mines, shipbuilding, the brewery, factories. Proper permanent jobs.

My brother hasn’t had a permanent job in ten years, my auntie retired early because her factory moved to Eastern Europe, I don’t know anyone who works for Nissan, all the school friends I’m still in contact with switch from Asda, to Sainsbury’s, to the shop down the road, never a stable job.

The town centre has been ‘regenerated’ but it’s the same stores as any other and half the units are empty.

We already exist on handouts and have for quite some time now. We want proper jobs, and proper work, but there’s literally nothing left up here.

Reading through any Brexit related thread on here it's obvious that there are intelligent and stupid people on both sides of the argument, but anyone who makes sweeping generalisations about millions of people being thick just because they voted differently in the referendum is just making themselves look blinkered, IMO.
I voted leave, in the hope that we could break free of EU dominance, while continuing to trade freely with the EU. I also hoped that the money saved on EU subsidies could be used to help support the NHS and social care, and that we could support our UK farming industry. I think there was a lot of misinformation bandied about on both sides of the debate before the vote, so nobody really had the full facts, and it's still impossible to predict how things will pan out. The negotiations with the EU have dragged on so long that everybody is feeling frustrated, and the worry and uncertainty of the future is dragging people down, which is bringing out the worst in people.
All that is no excuse for vile behaviour, which seems to go hand in hand with a lack of good manners these days, where many people feel overly entitled to have their way, and are ready to lash out verbally or physically, at anyone who prevents that or disagrees with them. The politicians haven't helped, as they've been more interested in scoring points against each other than working together to find a decent compromise - that has just inflamed and divided the public even more.
The mood in parliament does seem to have changed in recent days though, and some MPs have come up with various compromises to try to get a suitable deal. I hope they succeed in getting a soft Brexit, which hopefully will give the independence that leave voters want, while maintaining good trade links with the EU, which should please remainers and leavers alike. Maybe that won't be possible, in which case difficulties in food supply chains, rising prices and job losses could spark civil unrest, including a lot more vile behaviour. (Not meaning to scaremonger, but I think things could get pretty nasty if we crash out with no deal.)

We already exist on handouts and have for quite some time now. We want proper jobs, and proper work, but there’s literally nothing left up here.

Perfectly reasonable things to wish for, but how do you expect leaving the EU to deliver them, especially given the leaders of Leave? Do you really trust Johnson, Gove, Davis, Fox, Redwood, Farage and the rest? What do you expect them to do for you?

Theresa May initially promised better, but soon caved in to her right wing, and has now hamstrung herself.

I know one person who voted to leave. He's an acquaintance who works in an industry that has a longstanding tricky relationship with EU regulation. We had a long, very civilised conversation about it just after the referendum. I didn't agree with any of his reasoning but I had respect for the fact that he had thought it through and voted according to his own perspective and beliefs, even though I was devastated by the referendum result. For context, and to address this charming pp,
I would guess a fair few on this thread who are being abusive to Leavers are doing alright financially in life and fuck those that aren’t.
neither of us is very well off, both of us are intelligent but I am the only one with a degree level education (Open University, self-funded, before the inevitable comments) and we are both nice people, I think.

The only leave voter I've been in any direct conflict with was a woman in a supermarket line who abused me to my face because I was buying a New European. It was exactly along the lines of we won, you lost, get over it, except not so polite, and was completely unprovoked (except by my shopping).

I have no problem with leave voters who had decent reasons for their vote, but there don't seem to be very many of them and they do seem to be the ones who have changed their minds now they can see the path we're on. (My acquaintance has.)

I have every problem with leave voters who led us into this mess through ignorance and bigotry, who didn't bother to fact check the leave campaign's lies on even the most basic level, who couldn't/can't give any reasons for their vote and who would rather hurl abuse than debate. I also have no time for anyone who is still describing as 'project fear' the real things that are really happening to real people's lives and livelihoods as a result of the vote to leave in combination with the eye-watering incompetence of the May government in negotiating a sensible, sensitive path out of the EU.

In the interests of balance, I also have very little time for anyone who voted remain because their friends/parents/facebook feed steered them that way, without making any effort to form their own opinion based on facts. This was too important a decision to be made by anyone who couldn't be bothered to familiarise themselves with the subject matter.

I'm also deeply unimpressed with everyone who seems to have had a complete empathy failure. That covers a broad spectrum beginning with the many leave voters who have shown no interest whatsoever in understanding why so many of us are distraught about Brexit, thru people who don't care about family members (or anyone else for that matter) losing their jobs, all the way to anyone who's ever bitched about crappy, minimum wage jobs being done by East European migrants without bothering to wonder why anyone would travel a couple of thousand miles to pick vegetables in the East Midlands - and without considering for one moment the possibility of stopping moaning and using their own right to freedom of movement to look for work elsewhere in the EU themselves, which is something I did twice when my industry went flat and the choice was migrate or sign on, and was an option I was very grateful to have.

In contrast, I think remain voters have bent over backwards to comprehend and empathise with the leave vote. In fact, any remain voter with the letters MP after their name has probably bent over so far they're now in a position they can't get out of without urgent expert help.

Regurgitated drivel. On a never ending cycle of repeat.

Mumsnet could condense the content of the past two years on this subject to two messages.

1.We hate everyone that voted Brexit.

2.We hate everyone that voted against Brexit.

The search for that one post that nails everything and ends the argument has been going on since the day of the result.
Like the holy grail no ones ever going to find it though because it doesn't exist.
Yet you all still post again and again and each time you press the send button you think to yourself 'THAT'S THEM TOLD THIS TIME' ...but it isn't because nobody really considers anything you've written. It just carries on day after day. Week after week....ad infinitum.
The absolute pointlessness seems to be lost on everyone.

Nobody cares what anyone else thinks on the subject of Brexit and nothing you ever type as an individual on the internet is ever going to make one iota of difference.

Consigned to the cesspit of Brexityness. Scratching, Flailing and Cursing at the injustice forevermore.

Wouldn't it be great if we could put a definitive number on the amount of years the average citizen is going to lose as a result of the stress they put themselves under as a result of just thinking about it.

Bobbly, I’m not coming at this from leavers perspective. I tolerate remainers and their views and I expect mine to be tolerated in return. All I’m pointing out I that we surely have to tolerate one another to have a civilised society. After all intolerance of political views is no different from intolerance of religious views.
I will not 'tolerate' racists like Farage or liars like Boris Johnson and think they do nothing to contribute to any civilised society. I will also not 'tolerate' extreme religious views that go against (for example) the rights of women. Why should we 'tolerate' people or groups if we believe they represent the antithesis of 'civilised society'? Fuck that. I'd rather argue against it and hope that eventually it might effect some change.
This is the 'it is what it is; we need to get on with it,' argument. Well, we're not all docile fools who will 'tolerate' everything and anything just in case some people get upset.

TheCounter you don't think perhaps its because we are human beings and we like communicating, regardless of how badly you deem our efforts to be ?

Oh god, shut up. Nothing anything any of you matters. You are wasting all your time and energy on these Brexit posts, for what?

Dimsum we need somewhere to express our views and feelings which we may not be able to in RL. I spent 4 hours talking about Brexit yesterday with friends, it's just too important and life changing to ignore.

Why do you care so much Dimsum ?

Brexit has certainly bought out the worst in people. Clearly this is such a mess.

The "we won you lost" mantra and says everything about their level of non existent intelligence.

I think the things that have made me feel so angry about the referendum:

It was a close result. The majority of the voters who turned out, not the total voting population voted leave. And it was a marginal result (telling me the difference was over a million, doesn’t change the fact it was a few %).

As a result of it being close, it has been incredibly divisive. Theresa May doing a few shitty speeches did nothing to rectify this. She should have taken the time to reflect fully on the implications for the country.

Instead, Theresa May has treated this like she would any other government policy which needs to get through on a slim majority . Ie pandering to back benchers, bullying, threatening etc. Instead, from the very start, she should have engaged with parties across the spectrum and come to a sensible solution.

There has been no serious response to the fact that the referendum election may well have been, at best, interfered with and that campaigners acted illegally. This has all been ignored.

That is why I’m so angry.

And don’t even get me started on the fact that those who “won” the vote still blame those who voted remain. It’s a fucking democracy remember, we can complain all we like

@icannotremember Because they know they fucked up but they can't admit that so they are doubling down and directing all the anger at others.

*An opinion only, let's wait a while and see if we leavers did fuck up.

Speculation is rife and is a waste of energy. Remember, some of us know how good Britain was before the bloody EU.*