Can I ask a question about a "hard border"

[StartedEarly]

Forgive me if this has been done before or if it's a stupid question.

If there is no deal we are told there will be a hard border.

Leo Varadkar has said they will not be policing a hard border.
The UK doesn't want a hard border.

So who exactly is going to come along and build checkpoints?

Then explain to me what arrangements the ROI would make were the situation reversed?

As above.

there are ppl on another thread talking about how so much of Irish food comes thru UK (lorries from EU that traverse GB and then catch ferry to Rosslare). It's their main supply route.

UK sneezes & Ireland catches a cold.

Isn't someone on one of these threads talking about how she & family criss-cross the Irish border 6x on an avg day? For work, to see family, activities, etc.

Well they wouldn't be thinking of leaving the EU to start with because they love it, but if they did they would have certainly considered the implications that leaving would have to the GFA - because they're not Moggy or Boris and the border is actually important to the Irish. Presumably, as we could have done if we'd have cared, they'd have resolved any issues before triggering A50.

It's not the EU telling us we can't leave because of the border - it's the agreement which we orchestrated and agreed to which makes it impractical.

During F&M in 2001 RoI put 1000 soldiers & police on their border (!?)

And no I can't because I don't see how the ROI is going to be disadvantaged by the UK leaving.
What detriment will the ROI suffer if we leave with no deal and no hard border is imposed?

I am genuinely shocked that you’re asking that Weetabix! The economic impact would be crippling! The Irish government have been preparing for all the implications of Brexit since its announcement. If you care to do your research you’ll find tonnes of facts and figures

And that’s quite aside from the feeling of abandonment their own citizens across the hard border will feel.

We loves the EU. And we loves them even more now because they are supporting the peace in NI.

leave with no deal and no hard border

You can't have both. It's impossible.

Weetabix the arrangements would, I suspect, be a commitment to full alignment and total observation of the letter and the spirit of the GFA.

The Irish government takes account of, and is committed to,the citizens of NI. Unfortunately it would appear that the British government want only to pay lip service to them.

I see remainers are still insisting the Belfast/GF agreement is ripped up.
Is this because they think if they can get enough people to believe the lie then they can get Brexit cancelled?

We are leaving the EU, we are not going to rip up the Belfast agreement and we and not going to put up border check posts.

The truth will set you free of the EU

ragged

Well, exactly.

@HappyHugs

The economic effect on the RoI will be crippling? Please explain exactly how?

And were the ROI to leave exactly how would they achieve alignment with the UK in order to avoid a hard border?

What is it exactly that the ROI fear will be entering NI and then crossing the border?

And if that is the fear then put up cameras. Practically they are not going to impede anyone's movements. Idealogically people might have issue with them but then the only way forward here is for both sides to compromise.

If the ROI are going to reject any option other than no Brexit then that means that the backstop will never end. The ROI and the EU will in effect be controlling the activities of the UK and NI.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

Ok. I’ll bite.

What difficulty do you see between Brexit and the GFA?

How would you suggest leaving the EU without harming the GFA?

@Weetabixandshreddies

“The ROI and the EU will in effect be controlling the activities of the UK and NI.”

Poor oul England, being told what to do by other countries.

After a few centuries trampling across countries, invading and colonising, there is a tasty irony

HappyHugs

But why would the ROI commit to full alignment if it was to the UK/EU benefit but to ROI detriment? Say they could achieve better trade deals but they would be in conflict with the UK then they would reject them would they?

Just say that the UK refuses to enforce a hard border? Will the RoI put one up? Who then will be breaking the GFA?

PaddyF0dder

Really? So this is what it's about then is it?

How you mean?

PaddyF0dder

Poor oul England, being told what to do by other countries.

After a few centuries trampling across countries, invading and colonising, there is a tasty irony grin

Go on?

Walkingdeadgirl has no answers and has not read the thread. Spewing empty rhetoric and displaying wilful ignorance.

I am happy to engage with weetabix because it’s a respectable two way debate. Someone who dismisses everything outright is not worth the effort.

PaddyF0dder

No. Please explain the meaning of your post. I would hate to misunderstand you, because at first glance it appears that you are saying the UK deserves to be punished for actions committed centuries ago? Obviously you can't have meant that because that really just shines an entirely different light on any negotiations between the ROI and the UK so clearly you can't have meant to infer that.

And were the ROI to leave exactly how would they achieve alignment with the UK in order to avoid a hard border?
I don’t know how Weetabix. That’s the bit that would need years of negotiating. But I absolutely believe they would do it to comply with their GFA obligations.

What is it exactly that the ROI fear will be entering NI and then crossing the border?
Remember that it’s a EU border. The fear is of substandard goods or goods at cheaper rates.

And if that is the fear then put up cameras. Practically they are not going to impede anyone's movements. Idealogically people might have issue with them but then the only way forward here is for both sides to compromise.
Ok so aside from the idealogical objections it would be impossible practically , border is too long and rural, there are far, far too many crossings, peoples homes cross the border, and in any case cameras can’t see inside vehicles.

If the ROI are going to reject any option other than no Brexit then that means that the backstop will never end. The ROI and the EU will in effect be controlling the activities of the UK and NI.
The EU (which is the voice with which RoI speaks) offered a deal with a NI only backstop. Doesn’t sound like they cares terribly about losing the rest of the UK

The economic effect on the RoI will be crippling? Please explain exactly how?

And to this question may I refer you to
www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/project-pricey-16-ways-a-hard-brexit-would-hit-irish-pockets-1.3642215

There’s literally stacks more stuff but I don’t have time here to find it all

HappyHugs

But really how much "contraband" is likely to cross the border by someone's back garden? Maybe a bag full, but not truck loads. Smuggled goods can be taken anywhere within the EU, and beyond and back again, in a car. Why is that permitted?

What stops the UK and ROI making an agreement, without the involvement of the EU?

I ask again. If the UK leaves without a deal and refuses to implement a hard border what happens then? Will the ROI implement one? Who in that case destroys the GFA?

I’m pointing out an undeniable historic irony at the heart of Brexit.

Not a particularly happy irony, or one I derive any joy from. Brexit is a pathetic clusterfuck that threatens disaster to both my adopted country (scotland) and my birth one (ireland). But within this idiocy there is a dark and undeniable irony in England suddenly bemoaning the possibiility of becoming a vassal state of being ruled from without.

That said, such irony has no bearing on negotiations between governments.

If enough people in NI want a united Ireland then they will get that eventually through democracy.

Em... Ireland has a say in this surely?!!

@HappyHugs
But really that article illustrates the benefits to the ROI of being able to continue trading with businesses in the UK. As everyone keeps saying on here, the EU must look after the interests of the member states and why should it make things easier for the UK? So the same applies here. Why should the UK be making things easier for the ROI to continue trading if it is to the detriment of the UK?

If EU countries want to benefit from trading with the UK then surely they should be insisting that the EU facilitates this for them? Why should EU countries (ROI in this case) just expect the UK to give and yet receive nothing in return?