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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

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19
DGRossetti · 29/01/2019 16:01

How much do we want to bet we have a stand off after brexit about "who builds the wall" similar to US?Mexico?

No wall will be built.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 16:02

The signatories to the GFA are only the UK and Ireland

the EU did not sign. It is just supporting its member country, Ireland.

It is the UK who decided to Brexit and then to choose a form of Brexit that endangers the GFA it signed

It could have chosen to stay in the SM and add a customs arrangement,
then no goods border would be needed, NI / RoI or NI / GB

But that would have stopped Tory donors making billions in hedge profits,
would have stopped the ERG having its "bonfire of workers rights" that Priti Patel was demanding
would have stopped them fully rolling back - instead of a thousand cuts - the Welfare State they've hated since Attlee & Bevin brought it in

This is not even a UK problem, it is a problem of the Tory Party having kicked off the the biggest crisis since WW2 and choosing to put party before country,
rather than dial back on their ideological red lines (FOM, ECJ)

derxa · 29/01/2019 16:03

Ian Blackford going on about The Auld Alliance Grin I give up. I'll stay in Scotland and we'll join the EU.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 16:03

Rosetti these are the reasons I see us dropping out of UN by the end of the next decade. We will be held up as the biggest example of hypocrisy.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:05

Nah...Ian Blackford is wittering on.

He's even managed to include William Wallace, etc. A little potted history of Scottish trading history. I can see why live updates have gone quiet. Grin

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:06

Now IDS Envy< not envy

BiglyBadgers · 29/01/2019 16:06

This is what makes me more furious than anything lonely. It's one thing maintaining a blitz spirit against an external attacker that your average person certainly didn't ask to come over and drop bombs. It's quite another to do so when the bombs are being dropped by our own planes.

mummmy2017 · 29/01/2019 16:07

This is a delay done on purpose to stop a vote.... Wonder why?
And who is delaying it... Pm. Or someone else.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 16:08

No wall or fence
Probably instread:

  • Pre-certification & inspection required for goods in NI, put into sealed vehicles until reaching RoI destination

  • Checks on all main roads that could carry goods vehicles from NI
    Accept there will be increased smuggling, but concentrate on traffic by legal firms

  • BIPs (Border Inspection Posts) that have to be within about 20 km from the border

  • All Irish firms using any British product whatsoever in its supply chain having a lot of extra checks and certifications

  • obvious medium term process is for the Irish govt and consumers to strongly discourage any Irish firm from doing this, at least re products from GB
BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 16:09

Just politicians who love the sound of their own voice ?

SusanWalker · 29/01/2019 16:10

Have cheered myself up by buying a book I wanted on eBay and cooking beef stew and dumplings for dinner.

There are 60 days to go and they are still arguing about people not giving way and proposing nothing of any substance.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 29/01/2019 16:11

Yes, I didn't mean an actual physical wall - I'm not Trump! I just meant who will pay for the checks...?

BiglyBadgers · 29/01/2019 16:12

Oh, lovely. I was wondering what to make for dinner. Stew and dumplings it is. Thanks SusanWalker that has cheered me up. Grin

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:13

IDS in favour of a backstop and open border, just not in favour of the mechanism (CU). He has been to see the negotiating team in Brussels apparently and thinks he got favourable feedback.

Hopes people get behind the Brady amendment/ Malthouse proposal.

derxa · 29/01/2019 16:13

Nah...Ian Blackford is wittering on. For me it was quite calming. At least he's consistent. The economic union between Scotland happened because we were broke and independence would likely be economic suicide. As Brexit will be. My heart says bugger off Sassenachs Grin
'Lighthearted'

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:15

Yvette up now...

thecatfromjapan · 29/01/2019 16:16
Thanks
umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:17

Yvette Cooper...

Worried that the chasing of unicorns means we could get No Deal by accident.

Anyone know who that hot bearded MP was????

PCPlumsTruncheon · 29/01/2019 16:18

Am trying to catch up. I have a lot of time for Ken Clarke and, although it pains me slightly to say it, I also have a lot of respect for John Major and his views about Brexit. They just highlight the utter shitness of the current crop.
I was listening to someone on LBC last night asking how many people ever woke up thinking ‘I can’t bear it, we’re still in the EU’. How did something that wasn’t even on most people’s radar, that hardly anyone gave a flying fuck about,end up tearing a country apart?
And totally agree about the comparisons with WW2 and natural disasters. This is totally self inflicted Angry

IsobelKarev · 29/01/2019 16:18

The people of NI support the backstop.

I think this is a HUGE point and one which the government (as well as a lot of MSM) has completely ignored. The backstop (or lack thereof) will predominantly affect the people of NI. If they are happy with it then, quite frankly, the UK parliament should respect that. Or do we only respect "the will of the people" when those people are English? (Yes, I know the Welsh mostly voted leave, but had they voted remain I honestly think their interests would have been ignored too.)

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:20

YC...the WA is a 'blindfold Brexit'.

Must be effort to build consensus but hasn't happened and still isn't happening.

Saying the same things again and again makes it more important that this safety net is needed. When I look into the PM's eyes now - I worry - every time had a chance to think about the country she has turned to party, every time she's had a chance to build bridges she has turned to the element of her party that wants to burn them.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:23

YC: Parliament to decide what the time period of extension would be at the end of February under Cooper amendment.

Confirms doesn't have to be an extension, it simply gives an option to Parliament. Parliament can decide at end of Feb whether to extend or not and for how long.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 16:24

Seems eminently sensible!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 16:26

lonely All these costs are born by whoever is doing the building and the hiring etc

e.g. re NI checks:

  • The RoI taxpayer - building customs posts, BIPs, Customs software, hiring staff ...
  • Mainly businesses themselves - pre-checks in NI, extra staff, sealed vehicles

The EU countries most effected - France, Netherlands, Ireland, Germany - have already spent billions,

.. another reason they are so pissedoff with this dithering around

Also why e.g. Calais etc have delayed prepping so long and according to RNorth won't be ready (despite what the Calais port politician claimed)
If the UK decided to Revoke, then all that would be wasted
If the WA is finally passed - unchanged of course - then the no deal part of the prep is wasted