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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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UnnecessaryFennel · 29/01/2019 21:29

PMK
OMG
FFS
FML

PestymcPestFace · 29/01/2019 21:29

And breath Fennel

MissMalice · 29/01/2019 21:29

Am I right in thinking Rudd voted with the government tonight?

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 21:29

Tory abstentions on Brady include Chope, Redwood, Jo Johnson and Gyimah.

Need to get a complete list...

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Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 21:30

Yes having watched Letwin's speech I feel I misjudged him. It was an unfortunate quote taken out of context. That's how Twitter works though I guess!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 21:30

If the UK govt are so sure there would never be an NI border, then the backstop would never be activated
It wouldn't be an issue for the UK.
AT leat not enough of one that the govt would rather No Deal.

It is May's attempts to renege ever since she agreed to a backstop in December 2017 that makes Ireland so convinced they actually need a backstop,

Lottapianos · 29/01/2019 21:30

'I still cling on to the small hope that TM and ERG fail andntje only option left is to revoke.'

Same here. It still feels like anything could happen. What a complete and utter circus

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 21:30

Jim Pickard@pickardje
Quote of the day is justice secretary David Gauke telling today's cabinet meeting that some Eurosceptic colleagues will always want more concessions and if they win on the backstop, and win on the £39bn, they will still say:

"Why can't you persuade France to give back Calais?"

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TorchesTorches · 29/01/2019 21:31

Thanks for your summaries RTB. I have learned a lot by lurking. I did have a q, where do you get your voting info by MP from. I tried theyworkforyou, but it didn't seem to be updated yet.

Unescorted · 29/01/2019 21:31

Hesta- they can't make their mind up. they send people to negotiate who then walk out of those negotiations and brief the UK press against what they have just agreed with the EU. Furthermore they show themselves to have no understanding of how the UK interacts with the EU or how the UK economy and its place in wider geopolitics works. The UK negotiation team are showing themselves to be, duplicitous, ill informed and stupid.

mybrainhurtsalot · 29/01/2019 21:31

Hesta54 said “Scandaloso they don't want to renege on the GFA, they have said we will not put up a hard border, why cant the EU trust us going forward to find a solution”

Aren’t you aware that the backstop will only remain in place unless and until a new solution is found? If you are so sure there is going to be an easy alternative solution then what’s the problem with the WA text?

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 21:31

At the end of the day everything comes down to May's intractable red lines. That's why everything is an almighty fuck up.

Hesta54 · 29/01/2019 21:32

GhostofFrankGrimes isn't that all part of negotiating ? how far back in history do we have to go, this is now, we cant be held responsible for other peoples actions

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/01/2019 21:32

If we find a solution, then the backstop isn’t a problem surely. It either doesn’t come into play, or it ends.

SillySallySingsSongs · 29/01/2019 21:32

Corbyn won't go for a PV after tonight and some of his 'insiders' are talking about deselecting Dennis Skinner as he voted against the whip.

I seriously give up.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 21:33

TBH....I think TM knows the EU won't budge but she will stick to her guns "It's the WA, no deal or no Brexit".

And I hope we'll eventually go for the WA because enough people will fear either no deal or no Brexit that they will go with TM's original WA.

The WA is as good as we were ever going to get with the red lines the Government set so perhaps TM is playing this one right?

Holidayshopping · 29/01/2019 21:34

What alternatives are there to the backstop/hard border issue?

If there was a good one, surely it would have already been thought of and agreed on?! What makes May think that one will suddenly appear?!

MyNameIsArthur · 29/01/2019 21:34

Thank you Redtoothbrush for all your commentaries

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 21:34

'we cant be held responsible for other peoples actions'

Actions like signing up to the backstop and then trying to wriggle out of it because it's no longer politically expedient?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 21:34

Yes, we did used to own parts of France
We demand it all back !

Loletta · 29/01/2019 21:35

Is the UK now kind of like a weird creepy pervert?

Every time the EU say 'no' we seem to hear 'yes'.
Do we need to sit the Government down and show them that video about consent with the cup of tea?

^^This 100%

MissMalice · 29/01/2019 21:35

So however many weeks on and still our choices are:

No Deal - destroys the country
No Brexit - results in right wing rioting
WA - painted as a betrayal/BINO and results in right wing rioting.

Inniu · 29/01/2019 21:36

@hesta have you reading the Withdrawal Agreement? It seems like you don’t know what the backstop actually says.

Bombardier25966 · 29/01/2019 21:36

Surely anyone negotiating a deal would know what their team/ government wanted before going into negotiations?

Imagine being at work and agreeing a deal with a client, then having to admit that you'd not consulted with your colleagues beforehand and actually they all think it's bollocks.

It's so embarrassing.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 29/01/2019 21:36

The back stop looks like a concession that’s why the brexiteers don’t like it. Their starting point afterall was, “we hold all the cards”. It’s a face saving exercise because the WA is shit, just decidedly less shit than no deal. Unless you’re a Brexiteer of course if which case walking away from your obligations makes you a tough guy.