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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:34

About that EU capital city tour...

Danny Kemp @dannyctkemp
Macron says Non to May - Brexit deal is 'best possible' and 'not renegotiable' - breaking from @AFP

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Whisky2014 · 29/01/2019 18:35

For 2 days before the last vote there was so much talk about how the vote would be a total disaster and mps would vote against it. There's been none if that this time so I expect it's gona be backed tonight

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:35

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
I'm told Richard Harrington and Tobias Ellwood are NOT going to quit so they can back the Cooper amendment, even though numbers are very tight.

They are satisfied PM's announcement on timing of meaningful vote means there is still time to stop no deal.

(Meaningful Vote on Feb 14th)

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 18:38

Not just Merkel ... and Tusk and Junckers and Weyand ... NON from Macron too:

Danny Kempp@dannyctkemp*

Macron says Non to May - Brexit deal is 'best possible' and 'not renegotiable' - breaking from @AFP

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:40

I think that Cooper-Boles is dead. Sadly.

I think the Brady amendment may now rest on the number of Soft Tory who oppose it. It looks as if the ERG will go with it, and the DUP have confirmed for it. Of course, it also depends on what the Labour (Independent) Rebels do.

I suspect it will squeak through. Just.

But we shall see what happens in the next couple of hours.

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 18:40

Looks like Tories against No Deal are going to chicken out as they have done all the way so far
Career & party first
Country ... can take its chances

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 18:42

So the Brady amendment goes through. Perhaps.

What will the reaction from the EU be?

That is the critical question for me. If they blink, the arrogance and hubris of the Government will have been worth it.

There cannot be a hard border anymore. Nor can there be a backstop that is less than say 20 years, given the current debacle.

The ROI Government must be feeling a bit sick now. But hopefully EU will continue to support them and the GFA.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:44

Stephen Bush @stephenkb
On Labour rebels/abstentions on Cooper amendment: the biggest single rebellion to make Brexit harder or not be seen to block it thus far is 15. The total number of Labour MPs ever to rebel in that direction is 21.

On the Conservative side, the biggest single rebellion to make Brexit softer is 25, the total number ever to rebel in that direction is 31.

On the Liberal Democrat side, the biggest single rebellion to make Brexit happen at all is one. The total number to rebel ever, including abstentions, is two.

On the SNP side, the biggest single Brexit rebellion is zero. The total number of rebels ever is zero. Looking back, it was a waste of time to add an SNP column to my spreadsheet now.

I think under the circumstances Cooper-Boles needs the biggest Tory Rebellion yet to pass.

I'm not fancying it, especially with Ministers bottling resigning.

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:45

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
Bumped into former cabinet minister. Their bet; Cooper won’t pass; Spellman and Brady’s amendments will. And then May back to Brussels. How likely she’ll actually get changes? Just under 50%..... but what option has she got

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Weezol · 29/01/2019 18:45

Its a three line whip to support the Cooper-Boles Amendment, yet 15 - 16 MPs are going to abstain???!!

Is one of them Corbyn perchance?

Scandaloso · 29/01/2019 18:46

If they blink, the arrogance and hubris of the Government will have been worth it.

The EU had better not blink.

umpteennamechanges · 29/01/2019 18:47

Upholstery is off, started snowing heavily and it's a 45 mom drive away from home. Didn't fancy being stranded when it finishes at 10pm!

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:48

A reminder of Spelman

I. Spelman no-deal amendment
Tabled by the longstanding Tory MP and former environment minister Caroline Spelman, with the backing of more than 115 MPs from various parties, this states that the UK will not leave the EU without a deal. It is only advisory and has no legislative force.

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PestymcPestFace · 29/01/2019 18:49

The EU will probably just respond with, this is stuff for the PD.

Wouldn't it have been nice if parliament had discussed this 12 or 18 months ago.

DangermousesSidekick · 29/01/2019 18:49

I hope that after the shit has blown up and the survivors are on their knees begging for help that the EU, both its politicians and its citizens, remembers that many of us did not want this. The majority for leaving was very slim. Many of us have been complaining about our government and the policy/ cultural direction of the country since the 80s, but with the British class system and increasing equation of money and voice, never had a voice in it.

borntobequiet · 29/01/2019 18:49

If Andrew Bridgen wants to stop looking absurd, he needs to stop being Andrew Bridgen.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 18:49

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

So to sum up the PM's speech:
she is now asking the Commons to rip up the deal she agreed with the EU, change the backstop she said was unchangeable, and has given herself just 14 days to talk the EU27 round.
She sure likes a challenge.
.....
Nick Gutteridge@nick_gutteridge

As a weary EU diplomat told me the other day: '
I don't know why you keep coming to us for quotes. You could just re-use what we told you last time, or the time before that, or the time before that, or...'
We barely even need to bother asking what EU's response will be to this.
.....
Bloomberg reports Juncker told May in phone call today EU won't reopen Withdrawal Agreement if MPs vote in favour of Brady amendment.
Source says:
'Seeing as that's the line of all EU countries and institutions what else do you think he would have told her?'
It's a fair point...

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:49

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/29/amendments-to-may-statement-brexit-bill
This is a round up of what all the amendments are

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/01/2019 18:52

Is there any hope at all that this will ultimately end up in the UK revoking A50? What else can we realistically do?

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 18:52

@Scandaloso

I am just hoping that since the WA was agreed by EU27, that any change to that would ALSO need agreement by EU27.

I am not sure of the procedures in that regard, but I am sure someone here does.

lonelyplanetmum · 29/01/2019 18:54

Wouldn't it have been nice if parliament had discussed this 12 or 18 months ago.

^ This.

Like perhaps we should have had an agreed position before thrashing out a complex road map and agreement with 27 other countries who all agreed to it .. Save us the embarrassment of admitting we don't agree to what we asked for ourselves?

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:54

Notice anyone missing?

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail
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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:55

Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti
NEW: ERG's Steve Baker says the group have agreed to support the Brady amendment.

BUT one MP inside the room tells me three or four still unconvinced.

This is going to be tight.

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IrenetheQuaint · 29/01/2019 18:56

The Prime Minister looks like death.

The Brexit Secretary is quite confused about whether the government supports the WA or not.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 18:56

Oh he's turned up now.

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