Westminstenders: The English Gentleman and Martial Law

[RedToothBrush]

Ahead of Tuesday's vote, let's have a quick look at the week's developments.

The Cooper-Boles Amendment seems to be in trouble. The amendment is designed to force government to extend A50 if the WA fails to pass parliament in order to prevent No Deal.

It's in trouble in several ways.

After lots of loud noises from Labour about supporting it, they have made no formal move to. Thus there is no requirement for Labour MPs to vote for it. The noise was just for Remain ears whilst trying to keep leavers on board.

The amendment is struggling for numbers; many of the former Labour MPs are extremely unreliable at votes and haven't turned up even for important ones of late. In addition to this, Tory rebels are backing away from it out of fear from a backlash from their grassroots who believe they are trying to stop Brexit. There was talk of up to 20 ministers resigning to back it, including Amber Rudd, yet as Sunday has dawned there's no sign yet and its usually the day for such political statements. Though there is time yet.

And finally there is the prospect of Murrison II. Now also backed by 1922 heavyweights Graham Brady and Damien Green this seeks to remove the backstop from the WA on our side.

Except the EU has said that this would not be the WA if it does not contain the backstop. And they would not ratify it.

Yet rumours are May is close to a majority to get the WA through with Murrison II.

There has been much speculation over what would happen to the Irish border in a no deal with Farage sticking his oar in saying "nothing". Whilst Barnier states that there would, but the Irish government are avoiding the subject. We have now had the comment that it would mean the return of Irish soldiers to the border...

We could have a looming situation where parliament passes Murrison II AND Cooper-Boles. But Cooper-Boles deemed invalid cos the WA has been passed by Parliament but in effect isn't worth the paper (or goat skin) it's written on. Thus no deal could still happen by 'accident'.

There's been talk of Murrison II not being picked by Bercow, and how this would provoke a walkout by government. It seems that since he's done it once it would be difficult to ignore.

And whilst all this is going on we now have the mainstream newspapers saying that there are plans for martial law, 'forward purchasing' of food, fuel and ammunition. Talk of travel bans and property seizure. And just general plans for the collapse of free society and the supply of basic essentials for continuous of life. And many ERG MPs are tweeting things which seem to be rather fond and happy with the idea.

Do not forget: What happens when May is gone? Who replaces her, and what are their views on liberal society and freedom. Cos that all looks rather 'troubling' in an authoritarian state kind of way. What power would they wield?

Just what are we sleep walking into?

Probably best to disengage from Brexiteers if possible. There really is no arguing with that level of stupid - it has to find it's own level now.

As the situation becomes more labyrinthine, I notice there's no real angle for the bots and shills to prise between, or it could be me ?

Just to be balanced. @ the Tories too.

The Stazi would wet themselves with the amount of data that everyone is generating. The fact that everyone's (phone) location is recorded down to the nearest few metres all the time it is powered for a start.

Which leads to a signal/noise ratio problem. The more you keep your ear to the ground, the more shit you pick up.

Anyway, all that data hoovering has fuck all to do with protecting the public and everything to do with providing the few lines by which an innocent man will be hanged.

Sadly there's a whole chunk of people who naively jumped on the internet without protecting their identity and who are now neatly indexed into the dark files. I suspect more savvy youngsters have started to protect themselves, and the old greybeards like me were never silly enough to decloak.

Chickens left on counters is very unMumsnetty, your friend probably frequents the Other Place. Does she call you Hun?

borntobequiet There was a school walkout around here recently protesting about (IIRC) climate change. DD1 (lower 6th) was very sniffy, as you guessed, that other pupils were disrupting their own/her classes to attend. Though in the end the impact was minimal and evryone doing 4 a levels decided they were too busy to go. I'd have loved the excuse of a day off protesting at her age, but Generation Sensible are, well, just so sensible. ('Mum I can make more impact if I do brilliantly in my A levels and degree and impact policy and environmental change through my career. Not by shouting on a street corner. Anyway, if the organisers wanted us there they should have made it a Saturday')
She's vehemently anti-Brexit but in our remainy-city that is normal for her age group. They all sit around in sixth form common room, apparently, saying 'whhhhyyyy would anyone vote to leave? I don't understand??'

Rosetti I wish I could. I keep thinking that she may suddenly "get it" but every day when we've had our chats about life and kids etc, she brings it all up (usually with a mocking tone, with her being the sole voice of reason of course). I ignore and let pass a lot of what she says but I didn't expect this level of stupid (I know, i'm so naive!) as she has a 3 month old baby, not to mention 2 other kids. I remember being protective at that stage of nursing which I thought would make her more sensitive to threats such as every supermarket chain telling the country we will have "empty shelves".

Born no, she's usually ultra sensible. Scans receipts to check all shops, knows her rights etc.
Peregrina - which is why all remainers should vote Lib in next GE IMO. The only way we can clearly say we want to stop this madness. I get that it's not everyone's cup of tea but as pp have said, stop Brexit first, then sort out the country.

Probably best to disengage from Brexiteers if possible

Hmmm not sure about this...If it's on FB or even MN the thing is that there may be friends or lurkers who are undecided, wavering, disenchanted, starting to understand the complexity a bit more.

So whilst there's no point trying to persuade an arch Brexiteer it's always worthwhile counteracting their nonsense publicly. This can only encourage a groundswell of opposition to Brexit. Never give up. If you broadcast sensible stuff, the penny may drop with people who were formerly neutral or disinterested.

I know it's all pretty hopeless but there may be a delay, at some point there'll be another vote, a by -election, GE or whatever. Never give up.

" it proves no deal is the EU's fault."

Yes, that's the entire point of all these Tory amendments:
running out time to No Deal and then pushing the blame of their own fuckups onto the EU

Don't try to look for any deeper plan, because there isn't one

@borntobequiet

Love your approach to teaching! I wish we'd had some real life examples...

And it teaches them skills to be critical thinkers at the same time...you need to be involved in designing the curriculum!

You probably can never convince wilfully stupid, but you can convince a lot of lurkers who won't all be stupid at all

So, drop any 1-1 waste of time, but increase your calm, factual arguments on public forums

It's the calm I have problems with BCF

Yes agreed. I need to re-focus. It's like talking to her from 3 months ago sometimes as her argument doesn't change.

I've emailed the school to ask what their policy is re opening if there is no/limited food in 59 days. I said that although some will be able to manage packed lunches, many may not. Hope I didn't sound like a nutjob for asking!

I will be voting lib Dems. Look at what people achieved by voting ukip, or threatening to.

Anyway I did enjoy Vince Cable on politics live yesterday. He pointed out that no one really cared that much about the EU until Cameron called the ref. To which he was asked why so many turned out to vote. They were radicalised he said.

Thanks, Umpteen!
I’m lucky though that I’m retired from secondary, where you are very much constrained (mostly by lack of time, misperceptions of what “Ofsted wants” and by having to focus more on behaviour management) and in a place where I’m more or less left to my own devices so long as I get results. So I have more freedom to do what I like than I used to, though I did my best even then.

I'm so angry with our politicians. Leaders on both sides are putting their party before the country. This latest ERG thing is a fucking joke.

Watching Dominic Grieve now. It's so pleasant to hear somebody who isn't actually lying.

@davidschneider
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More
Brexit negotiations. A summary:

23rd June 2016 - 28th Jan 2019
Tory party negotiates with itself. Presumes EU will accept whatever they decide.

29th Jan 2019
New tactic. Tory party negotiates with itself. Presumes EU will accept whatever they decide.

12:47 AM - 29 Jan 2019

I'm not watching.

I just...can't.

@SusanWalker

Vince Cable talks a lot of sense. Unfortunately he's not very charismatic and I always think they (LD) must be slightly out of touch with the media as they struggle to get their voices across much more than other parties that are even smaller than they are.

Possibly because they are reasonable and reasonable doesn't sell newspapers?

I really feel the LDs should do better than they actually do (I vote for them, became a party member, offered my services to volunteer lots of times directly to the local party and it never got taken up). They seemed a bit disorganised and like a group that preferred to sit around on FB and pontificate about theories rather than actually do stuff or engage with the public or well...anything.

Ahhhhgggh

Just a shit day today kids.

I’m off out for the afternoon, if anyone fancies popping on to my little AIBU thread to nurse it along, please do, I’m quite fond of it (also pleased that it’s still in AIBU). Thanks those who already have!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3492425-Possible-food-shortages?pg=1

My DC are still in primary and have had it drilled into them to never mention the “B word” outside our four walls. If it ever got covered at school (obviously it won’t, at primary), they’d be sitting silently like

My dd is 6 and came home the other week to tell us it had been talked about in her school assembly. I was rather impressed, though it did mean we had to sit down and try and come up with a way of explaining this clusterfuck that a 6 year old could vaguely understand.

Yes I agree they seem disorganised. DS joined as a youth member but barely hears from them.

I think Vince comes across as too sensible for today's politics which means he doesn't get screen time. You have to be controversial to get time these days.

I thought his radicalised comment was spot on though. It's how it feels.

For context we live in a remain area surrounded by leave areas. It a mix of pretty wealthy but also a fair chunk of council houses. Quite a lot of the parents commute to London and work for large multinationals so I think many are more aware of it than in some other areas. I assume older kids had come into school and talked about it so they felt they had to say something.