Westminstenders: The English Gentleman and Martial Law

[RedToothBrush]

Ahead of Tuesday's vote, let's have a quick look at the week's developments.

The Cooper-Boles Amendment seems to be in trouble. The amendment is designed to force government to extend A50 if the WA fails to pass parliament in order to prevent No Deal.

It's in trouble in several ways.

After lots of loud noises from Labour about supporting it, they have made no formal move to. Thus there is no requirement for Labour MPs to vote for it. The noise was just for Remain ears whilst trying to keep leavers on board.

The amendment is struggling for numbers; many of the former Labour MPs are extremely unreliable at votes and haven't turned up even for important ones of late. In addition to this, Tory rebels are backing away from it out of fear from a backlash from their grassroots who believe they are trying to stop Brexit. There was talk of up to 20 ministers resigning to back it, including Amber Rudd, yet as Sunday has dawned there's no sign yet and its usually the day for such political statements. Though there is time yet.

And finally there is the prospect of Murrison II. Now also backed by 1922 heavyweights Graham Brady and Damien Green this seeks to remove the backstop from the WA on our side.

Except the EU has said that this would not be the WA if it does not contain the backstop. And they would not ratify it.

Yet rumours are May is close to a majority to get the WA through with Murrison II.

There has been much speculation over what would happen to the Irish border in a no deal with Farage sticking his oar in saying "nothing". Whilst Barnier states that there would, but the Irish government are avoiding the subject. We have now had the comment that it would mean the return of Irish soldiers to the border...

We could have a looming situation where parliament passes Murrison II AND Cooper-Boles. But Cooper-Boles deemed invalid cos the WA has been passed by Parliament but in effect isn't worth the paper (or goat skin) it's written on. Thus no deal could still happen by 'accident'.

There's been talk of Murrison II not being picked by Bercow, and how this would provoke a walkout by government. It seems that since he's done it once it would be difficult to ignore.

And whilst all this is going on we now have the mainstream newspapers saying that there are plans for martial law, 'forward purchasing' of food, fuel and ammunition. Talk of travel bans and property seizure. And just general plans for the collapse of free society and the supply of basic essentials for continuous of life. And many ERG MPs are tweeting things which seem to be rather fond and happy with the idea.

Do not forget: What happens when May is gone? Who replaces her, and what are their views on liberal society and freedom. Cos that all looks rather 'troubling' in an authoritarian state kind of way. What power would they wield?

Just what are we sleep walking into?

DH goes into schools. They ask for copies of his DBS. Cos magically a DBS makes everything OK.

I bet there is no data (because no one has looked) as to the negative effect that DBS has on children's access to beneficial expertise ?

DGR
Ah, that is where my libertarian streak comes in.
Laws are to prevent harm, not to do good

DGR
I bet there is no data (because no one has looked) as to the negative effect that DBS has on children's access to beneficial expertise ?
There is actually !
Because the CRB system became such a nightmare, several providers refused to work with certain local authorities
and hence why DBS is much narrower than CRB

Laws are to prevent harm, not to do good

Harm to who ? Anti-abortion laws are there to prevent harm to the unborn child ....

John Stuart Mill:

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant..."

^There is actually ! Because the CRB system became such a nightmare, several providers refused to work with certain local authorities
and hence why DBS is much narrower than CRB^

Color me surprised

PMK, thanks as always @RedToothBrush much appreciated. I am on edge in anticipation of another mega week. I'm currently just awaiting completion on our new house, with a utility room for the first time ever and then my forward purchasing will commence.

Placemarking with the answer from the last thread that DS2 (age 9) chimed in with "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, no I mean Northern Ireland" before DS1 (age 12) could answer the question. He said "is he right?" and didn't know what he'd have answered if his brother hadn't got in first DS2 is obsessed with maps and detail, though.

PMK. Thanks for the thread Red.

I was wondering earlier. If TM can revoke unilaterally, and chooses not to, despite knowing that deaths could occur as a result, could that make her personally criminally liable for prosecution in the future?

Manslaughter on the grounds of Negligence, as the consequences can be reasonably foreseen?

It's one of the main reasons I don't want a PV. I strongly believe the people who instigated this, broke the law in their campaigning, knowing the consequences of leaving, should be personally liable.

MPs who voted for May's deal, so leavers, are being hounded and threatened with deselection by Leave.EU

An object lesson in not running with and facilitating fascists - eventually they will come for you.

Lonelyandtired No apology needed and no offence taken! I do honestly believe that the Civil Service are doing the best they can with the poison chalice they've been handed.

The discussion about MPs is interesting and ties in with a discussion yesterday about the role of the Unions and with something I was thinking about earlier .When I worked in Whitehall, most MPs had had previous careers - in Department, for example, we had Roy Mason, who had been a miner from the age of 14 and Bob Brown who had been a plumber and gas inspector. They had a perspective developed outside of Westminster anda real connection to the working class people who had elected them. I think we lack that kind of connection now and that means that many people feel unrepresented.

Well the Norths have been called Remainers for over a year -
and R North has campaigned for Brexit since about 1990. He was in at the start of UKIP and James Goldsmith's Referendum Party before that.

Daft thing is, much as they condemn No Deal, both Norths would still choose it if the only alternative were Revoke
..... but that still makes them Remain traitors apparently.
(I'd call them pretty hardcore)

Well my dd (7) said England in United Kingdom. We have work to do!

She has however pulled out packets of vegetable seeds and insisted we plant some NOW and indoors so that we can sell them "when everyone else wants food after Brexit" . I've just finished doing some (no idea if any will grow at this time of the year) but better to try and fail than not try at all!

If only Mills was applied to anti vaxxers...

..... but that still makes them Remain traitors apparently.

And on that note, David Allen Green is in the process of tweeting this thread:

David Allen Green @davidallengreen
Proposed Brexit compromise.

As Brexiteers just want somebody to blame, why not just stay in the EU?

Remainers get what they want.

Brexiteers get what they really really want, which is to blame the Remainers.

Everyone is satisfied at a primal level.

Win-win.

Many support Brexit because it an easy form of demonology. The impulsive reaction of Brexiteers is to demonise: the EU, judges, diplomats, civil servants, "them", Speaker, MP rebels, immigrants, etc. Always someone to blame. It is about demonisation, not practical politics.

But their ultimate adversary is no demon, it is Reality. And Reality is a [expletive].

Margaret Thatcher promoted the Poll Tax because she believed people would blame high-spending left-wing councils.

People didn't. They blamed the people who promoted the flawed policy.

Brexiteers should remember this.

Pmk

MrsLucy I seem to remember people calling for Tony Blair to be tried as a war criminal for knowingly sending troops to their deaths despite being aware there were no WMD's...so I suspect not.

"MPs who voted for May's deal, so leavers, are being hounded and threatened with deselection by Leave.EU".
I've also just read that the Tories are hiring a top lawyer to help those constituencies who don't agree with their MP's stance to de-select them.

Missbel talking about previous experience. Denis Healy was the Beach Master at Anzio when he was in his 20s.

Today's politicians are donkeys.

ps ie their MP's support Remain, they don't.

Moussemouse Certainly a bit different from going from uni to an internship to a political adviser's job to MP, possibly via a Merchant Bank or media company!

Sorry, moussemoose*

Remember, the campaign strategy of Vote Leave was to make Leave to all intents and purposes a lightning rod for grievances.

red MrsT's problem is that "leftwing councils" which voters had chosen anyway, had not been subject to 30 years of hate media

Also, it was the govt directly imposing the poll tax

This time, with much demonisation and e.g. Murrison II, clearly the EU and "mc Remainers who own books" are being set up to be blamed for all hardships,
easy to do because the EU will have to treat Britain differently to when it was a member, but Brexiter MPs have lied about this.

Serious question: What does Jeremy Corbyn do all day?

I hardly ever see him on TV (apart from PQT) or hear him on the radio. Surely as leader of the Opposition he should be all over the media. Apologies if I've missed him but it's not been for want of looking.

Also, noone chose poll tax in a referendum

if Leavers blame the govt for hardships, then they would be blaming themselves for their own mistake in voting Leave.

few voters - or politicians - will admit to having made that kind of horrendous mistake

Just been done the leave eu rabbit hole. They are so angry

The army does not have enough bods to do martial law, even with reservists. They would have to call in a civilian faction to help out. This faction has identified itself. Who knows they may even don brown shirts.