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Brexit

Westminstenders: Red Squirrels are British. Groundhogs are not.

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/01/2019 23:05

Well the good news is we haven't got a GE yet, and it looks unlike one will be called this week. Purely because we haven't got a crisis point looming this week.

May has officially confirmed plan A is plan B. But says she will try and get more on the backstop whilst working with the DUP. Barnier and Ireland have said 'no'

We now prepare for the Meaningful Vote II.

And a week of speculation about amendments.

Here's a quick summary of likely ones:
Guardian Article on possible amendments

I think the Labour one will struggle to gain Tory support. The big thing about it is leans the party line firmly towards a customs union.

The Grieve one is handicapped by talk of a minority of 300 taking control of Parliament. Otherwise it might have support.

The two most interesting are:

The Benn 'Indicative Vote' as its reflective of the Brexit Select Committee recommendations.

The Cooper-Boles Block No Deal amendment which is cross party and seeks to place a final date on May passing her deal by 26th Feb, after which Parliament will take control. This I believe is being supported by Labour as a whole.

Bercow of course gets to say which amendments are debated and voted on but Benn and Cooper-Boles have broad support so are unlikely to be ignored by him. The two together seem to compliment each other.

The rest of this week is likely to be lobbying on this but otherwise fairly calm. Though someone is bound to throw a few curveball in there with leaks.

The only other thing to watch out for is talk of up to 40 ministers quitting if they are not allowed a free vote on some sort of indicative vote motion. This seems to be being lead by Amber Rudd. But I don't expect this to come to a head until the weekend at the earliest.

In other words, we have a couple of days of calm before the storm. Expect it to ramp up again at the weekend in craziness.

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DGRossetti · 24/01/2019 09:34

Why not a 2 year degree with a middle year working in that field ?

One of the striking differences about other countries and cultures is how entwined education and industry are. Both supporting each other. But there's something in the UK that seems to tend towards a more compartmentalised society. In a world where the half life of facts is a known and observable phenomenon it seems a tad shortsighted.

BiglyBadgers · 24/01/2019 09:36

I'm currently on a year out from a MH Nursing degree which I've had to defer due to my own MH hitting the skids. I've been seriously weighing up whether to go back as it's clear managing my own health during the degree is going to be really tough and I don't want to go mad again to be honest. However the closer we get to a no deal the more I think I might need to or at least the potential risks would be worth it in the long run for the security it would give us. Pretty much my biggest reason for completing is that it would ensure a stable income and guarantee work. DH and I were also talking about the possibility of leaving the country and it would enable us to move pretty much anywhere in two to three years time. We'd need to hunker down until I register, but income wise we would be relatively secure if not exactly flush with cash.

It makes me so sad to find I need to think like this, I do love the UK and for all its many issues I really do want to work for the NHS, but if things keep going as they are than this country is going to be a mess for a long time. I feel like I have a responsibility to DD to give her the option of a future that is not in a failing state.

Shit, this whole mess is so depressing.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2019 09:44

I am a summer baby and I think this really impacted on me going to uni. I was simply not mature enough going to university. I graduated before my 21st birthday. I really only enjoyed my third year as I wasn't emotionally mature enough to cope with all the other parts of university. I personally would have done better with a 4 year sandwich course. A two year course would have been a disaster for me.

However now, the idea of doing a second degree does appeal. The cost and length of a course is what is off putting in many respects.

I do very much agree with problems of the compartmentalisation of society in the UK. I've worked with graduates who are supposed to be good students of the field, but they totally lack any sort of practical idea of application in the work place, to the point that for a small company it was impossible to devote the resources needed to train them.

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Katerinablum66 · 24/01/2019 09:45

Alex salmon arrested by police apparently .... On the BBC website

ElenadeClermont · 24/01/2019 09:46

Advice for visitors on travel to Britain in 2019

23 January 2019

Following the recent Brexit developments, we’ve produced advice for visitors on travel to Britain in 2019 and beyond (details below correct as of Wednesday 23 January 2019):

There is reassurance from both the UK Government and the European Commission that flights will continue to operate between the UK and the EU after the 29 March 2019 regardless of the wider Brexit negotiations.

EU nationals will be able to continue to travel on ID cards until at least 2021. The expectations is that visitors who are citizens of current EU Member States and who have a valid passport will still to be able to use e-gates to make entry quick and easy. Visitors who are citizens of current EU member states will continue to be able to travel without a visa Please check the UK government website for the latest advice.
www.visitbritain.org/advice-visitors-travel-britain-2019?utm_source=VBVEBIZ_Enews&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Enews_23_01_19

TatianaLarina · 24/01/2019 09:48

She bent over backwards trying to get an economist to come and put a positive view of ditching membership. She couldn't find anyone. It's literally Minford the maverick and that's it.

And Minford’s model was based, by his own admission, on the complete decimation of trade and agriculture in this country by free trade. I’m not sure how positive that really is..

1tisILeClerc · 24/01/2019 09:48

{One of the striking differences about other countries and cultures is how entwined education and industry are.}
I think (I should know but wan't really paying much attention) that the 'industry' in the UK is not really willing to take 'half baked' graduates as readily for mid or even final years I presume because they could be seen as disruptive in small or medium companies. Meaning there is nothing to tie them to a particular employer, and the overall culture is not to support employment by the government, maybe through tax breaks or whatever. It would need the UK's culture for general improvement to be changed, something like BCF mentions is the case in Germany.
Of course an economy that is at least expanding a little bit is necessary to justify companies taking new staff on.

PestymcPestFace · 24/01/2019 09:58

Shame the advice is not consistent across sites Elenade

you may need to renew your passport earlier than planned. Some passports with up to 15 months validity remaining may not be valid for travel.
www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-nationals-travelling-to-eu-essential-information

The rules for travel to most countries in Europe change if the UK leaves the European Union (EU) with no deal.

After 29 March 2019:

You should have at least 6 months left on your passport from your date of arrival.
www.gov.uk/guidance/passport-rules-for-travel-to-europe-after-brexit

The arse and elbow seem to have problems communicating.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2019 10:00

David C Bannerman @DCBMEP
Expect super Project Fear today from @Airbus. Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes

David Campbell Bannerman MEP (born 28 May 1960 in Bombay, India) is a Conservative Member of the European Parliament for the East of England, having sat for the UK Independence Party until 24 May 2011. He served as UKIP deputy leader from 2006 until 2010, when he was replaced by Paul Nuttall.

I think this is all we need to know about this individual. I think the tweet speaks volumes about the current state of the Conservative Party.

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PestymcPestFace · 24/01/2019 10:06

Discussion on whether or not a blue card is required for people attending working meetings continues.
twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1088121941997821956

Meanwhile, the EU heads towards elections.
Vasilis Trigkas says the blow of the UK leaving the union will be considerable, but it is only an exacerbating factor. In a European parliamentary election year, economic stagnation and a turn towards populist politics are far more worrisome
www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/world/article/2183246/why-brexit-may-be-least-eus-worries

The time for Brexit negotiations has been and gone. They have an election to campaign for and a desire to avoid too large a swing to the far right.

ElenadeClermont · 24/01/2019 10:09

Pesty I felt that the VisitBritain advice is a desperate plea to potential visitors from the EU. Please, don't desert us, we love you!

TokyoSushi · 24/01/2019 10:11

Sarah Wollaston, Luciana Berger & Chuka Umuna on Sky News now pulling their amendment for a peoples vote due to lack of support from the Labour front bench. Not sure of the exact detail but sounds like we are spiraling even further into the nightmare.

Very scathing about Corbyn.

DGRossetti · 24/01/2019 10:14

As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants

Sorry, they guy is a mindless thick cretin, as he clearly knows fuck all about anything - apart from maybe pleasing himself while wrapped in a Union Jack.

No amount of the UK "taking over" anything to do with Galileo will enable the UK to actually use Galileo. The bits that the UK really really needs will involve cryptographic systems the UK won't have access to.

Where do these dickwads come from? Is there a factory somewhere ?

Of course, in the "who needs experts" culture, no one will challenge this sack of shit in the press.

1tisILeClerc · 24/01/2019 10:15

{The time for Brexit negotiations has been and gone. They have an election to campaign for and a desire to avoid too large a swing to the far right.}

And with the barometer of the UK population showing that the far right is also 'on the move', and more noticeable than previously, it will be a further disincentive for the EU to want the UK to remain in Europe, if it is likely to just add to the problems it already has.
With UK MEPs (Farage) openly saying they want to 'damage' the EU, why would you want the UK to stay?

1tisILeClerc · 24/01/2019 10:17

{Where do these dickwads come from? Is there a factory somewhere ?}
Some crumbling edifice next to the Thames I believe.

Apileofballyhoo · 24/01/2019 10:30

With UK MEPs (Farage) openly saying they want to 'damage' the EU

What is the hatred about? Fair enough not wanting to be in it, but why damage something other people want to do?

DGRossetti · 24/01/2019 10:35

What is the hatred about? Fair enough not wnting to be in it, but why damage something other people want to do ?

Jealousy. It's less-often noted, but there is an element of that in the Brexiteer psyche. That and insecurity.

Purely anecdotal (unless anyone has some research) but there's also a strong macho vibe about the entire Brexit narrative. It does seem to involve an awful lot of swinging dicks/dick swinging.

Tonsilss · 24/01/2019 10:47

I think Farage gets an adrenalin rush kind of pleasure out of destruction. He's all about power and attention-seeking. That's why he called for a 2nd referendum - he missed being in the limelight.

lonelyplanetmum · 24/01/2019 10:48

Jealousy. It's less-often noted, but there is an element of that in the Brexiteer psyche. That and insecurity.

And fear.

Odd isn't it, there is that macho and sometimes very nasty element, but masking fear and vulnerability. Weird.

MissMalice · 24/01/2019 10:48

What is the hatred about? Fair enough not wanting to be in it, but why damage something other people want to do?

I imagine it’s in part a distraction technique. Right wing disaster capitalists say “Over there! Look at the EU over there ruining your lives!” while they pickpocket everything you’ve got.

And possibly because if they can collapse the EU, they could make even more money?

LonelyandTiredandLow · 24/01/2019 10:55

I've just completed a BSc and would have loved to spend time on a more "hands on" role as part of it. We were told that they had tried to do that in the past but students hadn't turned up to the jobs, which was embarrassing for the Uni Shock. Personally as a mature student I would have preferred a 2 year course as a lot of it was repetition and the potential for having it more full time would be beneficial. However, mature students often come with "baggage" that universities aren't geared up for (childcare and general caring responsibilities being a major one) - for example our timetable changed 3 times in 3 months in Y1, we didn't get a timetable for 3 weeks in Y2 and when we did all of the exams and 90% of assignments for the year were due in in 1 month! Having to produce 15k words in assignments with 5 weeks notice with 3 exams over your head simply doesn't produce the best work and many of us felt administration was so bad it wasn't "value for money" which is now a big term for Universities. 2 of our modules went on until 7pm and if we arrived late the doors were locked, which did not go down well with those commuting from London. Add onto this that there is no database for student parents, who often drop out due to their commitments and lack of access to relevant support, and I suspect this is just a money making exercise for universities with little actual commitment behind it.

SusanWalker · 24/01/2019 10:56

Because they know that when we leave journalists are going to spend at least the next ten years comparing us to the EU. And we are not going to come off well.

So all that's left is to hope that the EU collapses so we look better in comparison. Or keep telling people they're about to collapse in the hopes that they will believe you. Which depressingly a lot of people will. If there's one thing we've learned, it's that a large tranche of the population will believe anything if it makes them feel big and hard like they're standing up to or have stood up to some non existent bully.

TheElementsSong · 24/01/2019 10:57

Some people just like to watch the world burn...

DGRossetti · 24/01/2019 10:58

It is in your nature to destroy yourselves. ...

SusanWalker · 24/01/2019 11:00

My university did loads of sandwich courses with a year in industry and several people I knew on engineering courses were being sponsored by companies they worked for.

I did a year out but mine was abroad as I did a languages degree. The only problem I found was I found it hard to get back into uni after the year out. But looking back I had underlying undiagnosed mental health problems which were probably a big factor too.