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Brexit

Westminstenders: Stalemate

958 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 20:54

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

OP posts:
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1tisILeClerc · 18/01/2019 12:37

Senior management is on a different planet to most people. Like the Clangers, they are well 'out of it' and they always have been.
The original board was elderly white male, Tory, Rich or at least very well off.
It has improved drastically since WW2, they have painted a few rooms and a new carpet.

DGRossetti · 18/01/2019 12:43

To get on I had to fill in a questionnaire on my age , sex and political beliefs

But were they verified ?

DGRossetti · 18/01/2019 12:45

Meanwhile, the UK is happy to outsource the death penalty Sad

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46919871

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 18/01/2019 12:54

DGR don’t see how they could have been when you are asked how you voted in a previous election or how you intend to vote in the next one or a referendum.

borntobequiet · 18/01/2019 12:54

Any Questions (R4) audiences are much more Remainy, even in Leave areas. Not surprising IMO. They've been getting very worked up recently.

Eatmycheese · 18/01/2019 12:56

@borntobequiet I think Maybot would quite like to be your cat. Snowed in as opposed to snowed under, warm and cosy instead of all the grilling but being out in the cold too.

Hazardswans · 18/01/2019 12:58

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-deal-negotiations-labour-dup-conservatives-parliament-commons-a8734271.html

No plans for cross party talks because they reached deadlock. So....TM is planning to speak to her full cabinet.

Has she not spoken to her cabinet at all the past 2 years? What has she been doing? I just...

mybrainhurtsalot · 18/01/2019 12:59

There is a producer who is in charge of picking the audiences for QT. There was a news story a few years ago about her trying to recruit audience members via the EDL and sharing Britain First posts etc. I don’t know if it was true. Here’s a link: www.commonspace.scot/articles/10001/bbc-reprimands-question-time-producer-over-far-right-social-media-posts

borntobequiet · 18/01/2019 13:00

WRT the "limited" US/EU trade deal - it was probably easier for the EU to get what it wanted without us sticking our oar in (assuming we didn't, being otherwise engaged). Wasn't it the UK pushing TTIP with lots of freedoms for big US businesses?

Eatmycheese · 18/01/2019 13:00

@Hazardswans it's rather wor

DGRossetti · 18/01/2019 13:00

DGR don’t see how they could have been when you are asked how you voted in a previous election or how you intend to vote in the next one or a referendum.

All of which I factor into the "quality" of a QT audience ....

DGRossetti · 18/01/2019 13:01

TM is planning to speak to her full cabinet.

one by one ? Again ?

Eatmycheese · 18/01/2019 13:03

Sorry my toddler hit my iPad.

All rather worrying, particularly since instead of actually negotiating and pushing Barnier et al she appears to have been nothing but struggle with and obsess over the ever changing Cabinet.

Katerinablum66 · 18/01/2019 13:07

I felt really uncomfortable watching question time last night, almost despairing. Particularly disappointed with Fiona Bruce's conduct and the way she jumped in to correct Diane abbott's statement about Labour's standing in the opinion polls. I appreciate that DA should have better prepared herself but there was a certain amount of vindictive glee which I thought a bit distasteful.

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 18/01/2019 13:09

I turned off halfway through , had a rant to DH and went to bed. He hates it anyway.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 13:15

hazard < peers up through the branches > 💐

prep as much as you think feasible, then add in some Mars bars too
Then you've done all you can
Now settle down with a Mars and chill with Westministenders.

nuttynutjob · 18/01/2019 13:15

OMG Plaice catmat king

Tanith · 18/01/2019 13:17

“I was keen on one before but not now. There’s no way of knowing the outcome and a huge amount of misunderstanding - especially about what No Deal will mean.”

Then QT achieved its aim.

QT is not an opinion poll; it is entertainment. That’s why they had Farage on so often.

It’s as reliable a public opinion guage as all those political facebook bots.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 13:20

bigly Nothing legally or constitutionally dodgy (just v unlikely) about May Revoking on her own
although politically it would have severe consequences without at least the cover of an HoC vote asking for this

To revoke A50 and cancel leaving something we currently belong to,
the PM is the only person who can Revoke and the only one who is legally needed for this.

She just needs to write a letter to the EU Commission stating clearly that the UK is Revoking - so not her usual opaque blathering, in case they don't understand and we fall out by mistake !

MissMalice · 18/01/2019 13:20

It didn’t achieve its aim as I’d already come to that conclusion before watching QT.

springtimeyet · 18/01/2019 13:20

Boris didn't say the bars were going to cost the same though I imagine.
Making plans to keep production going isn't the same as a company supporting the activity.
Also doesn't touch on export to the rest of the EU issues.

1tisILeClerc · 18/01/2019 13:31

Mars bars and chocolate in general isn't good for you anyway.
You need tons of fibre, leafy vegetables, spinach, that kind of thing.

Oh sod it, who wants to live forever anyway.

PootlesBobbleHat · 18/01/2019 13:33

I was interested to read on earlier pages of the Reservist plans in the case of a No Deal.

I've been pondering in my own field of work if we could be redeployed- I work for the NHS as a senior clinician but Allied Healthcare Provider. Although jy role is busy, generally patients are of the non-emergency type.

I thought about asking those much higher up the good chain if there was any chance of us called into the local hospital, say to assist on wards etc. Some of us are qualified nurses (I'm not) but you don't need to be qualified to do healthcare assistant roles.

I can see, if there were employment issues, a mass exodus of staff or some kind of national emergency that tgere could well be a need for staff to be moved out of non-urgent outpatient roles.

Trouble is, no one in real life is talking about Brexit. I'm pretty sure if I mooted this at work the managers would mark.my record as 'prone to anxiety', or worse!

But, having looked at that Reservists plan, I don't feel I'm very wide of the mark.

Thing is, everyone I know seems to think 'it won't be that bad' or 'they won't let anything bad happen' etc etc. No one in the NHS structure has even mentioned Brexit to us ordinary staff.

It's only here that I don't feel like the mad one :-/

PootlesBobbleHat · 18/01/2019 13:34

Allied Healthcare Professional, that should read.

Ta1kinPeace · 18/01/2019 13:35

Have now caught up on the day's events without having to look at any news
excellent

shame the news is so shit though