Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Stalemate

958 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2019 20:54

After May's Meaningless Vote defeat and Corbyns Pointless Vote for Your Own Party defeat we are well and truly at Stalemate.

May has invited other parties to come and talk to her to find a compromise. Except she has so many red lines all she is asking is for everyone else to compromise whilst she gets exactly what she wants.

Corbyn made a tactical error in not initially speaking to May, so now she gets to say that its Labour who are being difficult and not wanting to work together in the national interest.

Corbyn has in addition put down the red line of saying he won't talk to May until she agrees to drop no deal. Except since no deal is the default until an alternative solution is agreed! Corbyn is expecting May to say that she would revoke if there was no alternative agreed, whilst is isn't really reasonable from a compromise point of view.

They are as bad as each other. Both too stubborn for the country to move forward. Its long been said that they were alike in this respect, but having it put to the test about which is more stubborn has the potential to destory the country in the process.

In addition to this, Leadsom has removed all other Brexit related HoC business from the schedule until after the 29th January. This is a blantant attempt to try and stop backbenchers having the opportunity to table pesky amendments which the government don't like.

The 29th January is due to be the Meaningless Vote II. Given that May has made it clear that in her head 'compromise' means 'do exactly what I want and capitulate' it looks like the Withdrawal Agreement will be represented to parliament to vote on with little change. Perhaps with a few amendments there designed to attract support, though it remains to be seen where this support will come from given the spectulator level of the rejection the HoC gave it. May's Plan is literally to run the clock down and hold a gun of no deal to the head of remain leaning MPs or to scare Brexiteers by suggesting that she might revoke or there might be an extension.

Its beyond farce.

Of course the role of the Speaker becomes paramount.

Technically speaking no bill can be presented to the HoC twice in the same parliament. Its against the rules. So how is May going to get around this, and will the Speaker indeed allow it?

The Speaker may also try and help backbenchers out by allowing amendments and motions to be tabled outside the normal rules. Normally the government alone control the majority of parliamentary time, with the opposition parties being given so many debates depending on whether they are the official opposition and then according to their size. Backbenchers don't tend to get much parliamentary time. However the Speaker's actions last week showed he was willing to be creative and bend the rules to allow backbenchers more influence and power than under normal circumstances because of the way that the Executive was trying to frustrate the house. So not timetabling any further Brexit Business between now and the 29th January seems a sure fire way to have the Government straight on course for another run in with Bercow.

So what next:

Do not forget that whatever happens May has to agree to it, or we go to no deal. Whether that be a 2nd Ref, Revoking, Staying in the Customs Union, Norway + or Any Other Alternative May has to agree to it on some level.

Backbenchers can table amendments all day long to 'guide' or put pressure on May but they may not be able stop her ultimately. Boles, Grieve, Benn and Cooper seem to be the ones to watch.

So May's stubborness is the biggest barrier and issue there is to preventing No Deal.

Corbyn, whilst he might well be very right to avoid getting sucked into May's trap, isn't helping matters with his own stubborness. His priority is party politics and stopping the Labour Party from splitting. Not solving Brexit.

There is not a shread of pragmatism nor thought for the national interest between them. Party before Country.

So we are to go through all of the last week, possibly with another vote of no confidence thrown in for good measure in another 12 days.

Won't that be fun?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
52
mybrainhurtsalot · 18/01/2019 11:24

I’m a couple of pages behind, so apologies if this has been posted already... I signed up for emails about Brexit updates from the gov.uk site. Just got this one the morning and the last couple of lines really don’t inspire confidence...

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/770775/Letter_to_traders_about_BTI_no_deal_EU_Exit.pdf

Westminstenders: Stalemate
borntobequiet · 18/01/2019 11:25

On the other hand this (and my cat)
(The spots are dirt on the window, sure they are on the outside)

Westminstenders: Stalemate
Westminstenders: Stalemate
PestymcPestFace · 18/01/2019 11:25

Boris thinks we can negotiate a new deal without an extension. Poor deluded soul.

The EU is bunkering down and spending money to prepare for a no-deal. They will probably grant us a three month extension to get all the legislation passed.

FishesaPlenty · 18/01/2019 11:26

If it has to cover the entire cost of driving abroad (see upthread) it'll be more than "a bit" (probably £30-40 minimum).

It's already included in our policies at the insurers' expense.

If they stop having to include it they'll be saving that money on every policy.

They can then charge the people who actually want to use that service.

Their charges are subject to the normal pressures of competitiveness.

This is exactly how it worked until very recently. I prefer the current system myself.

MissMalice · 18/01/2019 11:28

Wow @borntobequiet, I want to be where you are. Not a single flake here. Want to swap?

mybrainhurtsalot · 18/01/2019 11:28

Oh pic is hard to read. The letter starts “Dear Customer” and signs off with:

“Yours sincerely [if we can mail merge names, faithfully if not],

HMRC Tariff Classification Team”

PestymcPestFace · 18/01/2019 11:29

There will still be Mars bars to eat Grin

SusanWalker · 18/01/2019 11:29

Apparently we will still have mars bars. Boris says so. So that's all right then.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 11:30

I love snow. I want snow. I want snowmaggedon!

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
Johnson election pitch: Brexit believer; Every study shows that people feel happiest & most successful when they have control over their lives and it is that feeling of autonomy the self-determination which goes hand in hand with pride that is ultimately what Brexit is all about

And what happens when the bubble bursts on that one Boris?

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 18/01/2019 11:31

Boris spouting more nonsense about the EU being obdurate.

Anyway to get back to my earlier point, especially since the DUP are now making noises about being in agreement, are there 322 MPs that would vote for a soft Brexit? I know about TM's hard line on FoM, and obviously the splitting of the Tory party.

What about Labour? Would a soft Brexit split Labour?

Because if I were Jeremy Corbyn I'd be specifically saying that Labour are ready to support a Brexit to honour the result of the referendum, but to avoid a backstop and comply with the GFA it must be a soft Brexit, and in any case nobody wants TM's WA, or no deal. And I'd keep repeating that same message.

Tah dah! Labour are the grown-ups and it's entirely up to the Tories to do what they will. I think that policy has a much stronger chance of destroying the Tory party than any other.

Otherwise Labour get the blame no matter what they do (as usual). Right now it's being spun as 'they won't co-operate in cross party talks'. FFS TM shouldn't need cross-party talks if her own party voted with her or she softened her red lines.

Violetparis · 18/01/2019 11:31

Michael Crick destroying Boris Smile

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 11:31

Where do we get the chocolate from for Mars bars?

Will we have enough milk for Mars bars?

Do I even like Mars bars?

OP posts:
PestymcPestFace · 18/01/2019 11:32

Susan because we won't be able to export them.

No fresh veg - eat Mars bars instead.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2019 11:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

borntobequiet · 18/01/2019 11:32

Not snowing atm! That was last year (well the year before last now) when I had to live on Stilton, mince pies and wine for four days. And then repeat after Christmas.

SusanWalker · 18/01/2019 11:33

The questions are quite good. Called out on the Turkey poster. Now saying he buggered off and resigned so it's a bit rich criticising TMs deal.

SusanWalker · 18/01/2019 11:33

I don't even like mars bars.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2019 11:34

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 11:34

What about Labour? Would a soft Brexit split Labour?

He's worried about Labour voters in the North.

I personally don't think a softer Brexit nor even remain would break the structure of the Labour Party. I think the issue for Labour is more to do with the wider population.

Corbyn just doesn't get north of Watford though really, and Corbyn himself is more of an issue to the north than Brexit IMHO.

OP posts:
SusanWalker · 18/01/2019 11:35

We hardly ever get snow. Not expecting any at all.

Violetparis · 18/01/2019 11:36

Completely agree Apileofballyhoo

PestymcPestFace · 18/01/2019 11:43

Why does Boris think he is incapable of coming up with plans that will mean the backstop is never fallen back on.
I've never had to use the airbags in the car.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 11:44

Patrick Macguire @patrickkmcguire
This DUP rebuttal to this morning’s Times story about their openness to a customs union a) isn’t a denial and b) does not change the fact that Foster has repeatedly said that the shape or hardness of any Brexit is ultimately of secondary importance to its all-UK basis.

Westminstenders: Stalemate
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 11:44

I'm too short for airbags. Airbags are dangerous to me.

OP posts:
MissMalice · 18/01/2019 11:44

Can’t-but-can believe he’s still spouting the control nonsense. No deal will leave us with less control. The WA leaves us with less control.