Why didn't we get facts like this in advance?

[Somewhereovertheroad]

HMRC projects additional Brexit red tape will cost UK businesses £6.5 billion/year. NHS estimates cost of satisfying new visa requirements on behalf of staff at £490 million/year.
*
That's nearly £7 billion in annual Brexit costs, or close to the £9 billion we pay as EU members!*

Why wasn't the homework done so we could have known things like this in advance?

assuming it's true

non-indigenous

Woop, there it is

A common leaver trait.

Yes and making offensive statements appears to be one of yours 1tisILeClerc

because no one listened when I tried to tell ‘em. Because Brexit was all about politicians playing games and they didn’t want reality to get in their way.

Regarding the matter of voting and when we have a veto, most legislation (80%) is passed in the European Parliament by majority voting. However, this is usually minor legislative changes. Any legislation that is considered "state-sensitive" requires unanimity of voting. That comprises any legislation in the following areas:

common foreign and security policy (with the exception of certain clearly defined cases which require qualified majority, e.g. appointment of a special representative)

citizenship (the granting of new rights to EU citizens)

EU membership

harmonisation of national legislation on indirect taxation

EU finances (own resources, the multiannual financial framework)

certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.)
harmonisation of national legislation in the field of social security and social protection.

Not spotted anything I have said that is not true.
I have asked a few questions though. It would be nice to think that since you are taking rights from me that you would have decent reasons for doing it.

1tisILeClerc

Hhmm maybe you should look back at your posts then?

And I do have decent reasons for voting thanks. You just disagree with them which is your prerogative, as I disagree with you.

Isn't democracy wonderful?

Give us an example Weetabix of a decision that the UK has fundamentally disagreed on, where it has then been imposed on us ? Which has absolutely no benefit to UK citizens ?

Juncker

You asked why Remainers voted the way they did. You asked we responded.

It would be nice if you could do the same when posters ask you polite questions.

Moussemoose

What have I not responded to?

I do have to be at work at 3.30am so am trying to sleep but what questions haven't I responded to?

Give us an example Weetabix of a decision that the UK has fundamentally disagreed on, where it has then been imposed on us ? Which has absolutely no benefit to UK citizens

An example of something that has already happened.

What did you know that made you vote Leave Weetabix?

The main reason I voted remain was because there was no clear plan for how we would extricate ourselves from the EU if the leave vote prevailed.

And here we are

What did you know that made you vote Leave Weetabix?

Nothing that I know. It is what I fear will happen. That the EU will cease to exist for the benefit of it's members and will exist for it's own benefit - which I see is already happening. That the only way it will be able to survive is to take more and more independence from member states. That has to happen. 27 independent states will not continue agreeing about everything indefinitely. It is already starting to manifest. Unrest is growing and will continue unless the EU becomes 1 country.

You might say it won't happen. I believe that is inevitable. I can't persuade you and you can't persuade me but it was on that basis that I voted to leave.

Are you religious weetabix?

Oh well that’s ok then, you don’t know what will happen, just ‘fear it might’

As opposed to the crap that we know will happen if we crash out.

Well yes to all of the above

All institutions and countries change over time

I expect the UK to change:

Ireland will eventually reunite, as the demographics change
NI polls indictate a No Deal Brexit would cause about a majority for that now, instead of in say 30 years

Scotland may choose independence (and join EFTA or the EU)
Again, No Deal Brexit accelerates this

I expect the EU to change too, probably to a more integrated inner core and a less integrated outer core

Also, more countries now want to join the EU and are in the waiting list
So it will continue to grow

(but Turkey won't be joining - that was a Leave lie !)

the EU will cease to exist for the benefit of it's members and will exist for it's own benefit - which I see is already happening.
I don't understand ^^. What do you mean Weetabix?

So "feelings " then. Thanks for that useful contribution to the debate.

is to take more and more independence from member states

I can see some have this feeling - my FiL does. But rationally how on earth can this happen? How?

The EU only has limited powers ( mostly over food, environment and basic workers rights) . This is because each individual country's government has found it cost effective to delegate those things by agreement. It is a choice taken by each individual sovereign government.

How on earth can a trading bloc take anything? Do you mean by force? If not - how?

It was always clear what the problems might be for anyone who bothered to listen properly and do a little independent research.
The Leave promises and assertions fell firmly into the category of “things that sound too good to be true”, so were probably not true.
Prominent people supporting Leave were mostly either 1) proven liars 2) mischievous troublemakers 3) long term Eurosceptic fanatics 4) disaster capitalists or 5) a combination of all of these, some now on the Conservative front bench, some on back benches, many in the media.
Whereas, despite all its faults - and there are many - membership of the EU has largely been beneficial for the UK, its member nations and communities for the last 40 + years, and the UK had serious influence both within it and through it.

The amount of paranoia on this thread about the EU is really quite bizarre. I'll say it again but we had a strong negotiating position in the EU and had a really long record of getting what we wanted! (Not on everything obviously but almost). This idea that "they" imposed things on "us" is just ridiculous. I am getting increasingly sad to see that so many Leavers really had no inkling of what our role was in the EU and so they really don't understand what an incredibly stupid move this is.

Precisely Recently, the debate can't actually be had properly as so few people understand what it's actually about. It's one of the reasons that the person I'm most cross with this week is David Cameron. His smug, I have no regrets over referendum is beyond frustrating. He is cushioned from any outcomes and the whole thing was unnecessary. He didn't need those votes that would have gone to UKIP. He had such little confidence in his own position and as a result threw the country away for a handful of xenophobic votes which didn't affect the outcome. And the truly shameful thing is just how much parliamentary time has been wasted on this nonsense when there are far more immediate and tangible things that need dealing with as a country.

What I don't get about this "I feel the E.U. was heading for disaster so I voted Leave " idea, is that if I say, "I feel no Deal in 70 days time is a pending disaster and so I'm stocking up", I'm a paranoid unpatriotic scarmongerer with no basis for such a notion. Odd. I wonder who that idea serves?