Can we have a list of all the things we will be able to do once outside the E.U. that we can’t do now

[Bearbehind]

With 11 weeks to go this should be easy but it’s clear from other threads that people still think things that have nothing to do with the E.U. will change when we leave.

Can we have a list of tangible positive things that can only happen by leaving.

{Sovereignty. Democracy. Accountability. }
Is what the UK has, and has always had.
You are mistaking the bollocks shouted by idiot politicians who are covering up for the fact they are fucking useless.
The rest of Europe can manage trains that run reliably, and cooperate across their country borders, why the hell can't the UK manage to run reliable trains across it's own country? One reason is that it is treated as a 'cash cow' by the government and not an asset to the infrastructure of the UK. Same with water, electricity, gas, buses. All treated as 'profit' for government rather than an asset for 'the people'.

In regard to NATO, if Russia invaded the Baltic states or Poland! we would be forced, with no say by Parliament, to militarily go to their aid.

When it comes to loss of Sovereignty and accountability that is a far bigger issue than if we can 100% nationalise the railways - a foreign body can take the UK to war without our Gov's say!

Shall we leave NATO too? or do the benefits outweigh the disadvantages?

You are mistaking the bollocks shouted by idiot politicians who are covering up for the fact they are fucking useless.

100% agree with this. We've had a really poor set of politicians and civil service mandarins running the government for the past 20+ years. They got away with it as they always blamed the EU! The Brexit vote was more of a vote against our London-Centric Metropolitan ruling elite than against Europe, simply because most of those self serving politicians were Europhiles.

If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, then blame Blair, Cameron, Miliband, Cooper, Balls, and the rest of their clique.

One of the reasons May, the ERG and many politicians and some business leaders (Wetherspoons guy) want to leave is because they personally will make many millions, hundreds of millions in some cases by getting the UK out of the EU. They will not be 'giving' these hundreds of millions to those who need employment and houses around the UK but putting it in offshore accounts to avoid paying tax to HMRC.
When you have money it is relatively easy to make more money.
There is no infrastructure to build or maintain, just numbers on computer screens. A bit like playing a betting game where your 'team' can get the jackpot numbers right over 95% of the time.
Frarage, JRM and the 'gang' are simply betting on 'rigged' tables, where it is just a flutter, like you may make on the lottery but it is someone else's lives that go to the wall when they get it wrong.

The rest of Europe can manage trains that run reliably, and cooperate across their country borders, why the hell can't the UK manage to run reliable trains across it's own country? One reason is that it is treated as a 'cash cow' by the government and not an asset to the infrastructure of the UK. Same with water, electricity, gas, buses. All treated as 'profit' for government rather than an asset for 'the people'.

Not just public services, but lots of other industry has been allowed to fall into foreign ownership, including car manufacturing, steel, but lots of others too. Other countries wouldn't have allowed it, whether by legal or dubious means, but the UK seems to have welcomed all and sundry to come in and buy our infrastructure, factories, etc. Sane with letting foreign firms win tenders for building new trains, passport production, etc. Whether that's because we've slavishly followed EU rules or not isn't something I don't know enough about, but down at grass root voter level, it's a matter that's been festering, helping the Brexiteers' cause. Whether true or not, there's certainly been a feeling that other countries preserve their own industry for jobs etc, but in the UK we've been too keen to accept foreign ownership/bids which have helped decimate the run down Northern towns and industrial heartlands. (Typical Labour territories which were overwhelmingly Brexit voters!).

For those saying that they want our politicians to make the decisions; what do you think about the decisions they’ve made and the way they’ve handled the last 2 and a half years?

Are you honestly happy to make your lives personally harder just to say we have soverignity when a) we always did anyway and b) the fuckwits in charge couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

{Not just public services, but lots of other industry has been allowed to fall into foreign ownership, including car manufacturing, steel, but lots of others too}
FALLING suggests that it was out of the government's control. This, for essential infrastructure like transport, water etc is not the case, it was deliberate policy to shift the risk from the government and add another layer to 'blame' when things are badly managed.
Activities like coal mining and steel production suffered from failure to invest and competition from overseas where due to better grade coal or easier working conditions (open cast mining) it was bound to have difficulties competing.

We don’t know if our lives will be harder.
They could be better.
Put away your totally biased crystal ball.

We managed fine before we signed the Maastricht Treaty, which took us from a trading block ( fine ) to a political union ( not fine & no one voted for it )

The UK is the most neoliberal of any EU country, in fact its the UK that keeps pushing neoliberal doctrine in the EU. All other countries seem to manage to do long term infrastructure investment, support industries within the rules, achieve better educational outcomes for the majority of their students, and have higher wage increases.

They manage to do this despite being part of the EU.

I disagree that previous governments have blamed the EU for their faults. The EU only becomes an issue when there are governments with low majorities- hence for the Tories in the 90s and after 2010 with the coalition government. It means a powerful minority group get to pull strings to set an agenda, where as the ERG, if May had won her predicted 370 seat majority would probably have made up a small part of the number of Tory MPs and had less influence.

The biggest problem in the UK is that since 1979 most industries have been run to make a fast buck. They have been short term profit maximisers, doing things to increase share price like buybacks, rather than investing long term to make profits in the future. The asset strippers like Goldsmith and others played a big part in this, but so did the massive increase in financial services importance.

Essentially brexit is a reaction to neoliberal economic policies for 40 years, led by the most neo liberal politicians of all.

"We managed fine before we signed the Maastricht Treaty, which took us from a trading block ( fine ) to a political union ( not fine & no one voted for it )"

You can repeat untruths surfer all you like. But the political aspects of the EEC were well known and publicised at the time of the 1975 referendum, and the first parliament sat in 1979, so yeah, its not that much different

Oh and we elected governments who were pro EU and pro Maasstricht, so we did vote for them. We aren't a direct democracy.

{For those saying that they want our politicians to make the decisions; what do you think about the decisions they’ve made and the way they’ve handled the last 2 and a half years?}
To an extent I would take this back to when the Empire started to come apart (not that I really agree with an Empire on the terms we had).
When you can dominate countries by violence with impunity it destroys a civil 'pact' and fostered a 'greatness' in the UK that was based on lies. Other nations did it too. As the UK was so dominant in it's heyday it led to a sense of superiority that was not well founded.
This theme is biting the backsides of many European countries but as the UK had been more dominant than most, it has further to fall. It would appear that now is that time.
You achieve greatness by collaboration, not overbearing dominance.

Surferjet
{We don’t know if our lives will be harder. }
Brexit has already made my life harder and we haven't even got to exiting day yet. I don't need a crystal ball as my DC is already suffering stress because my earnings are being taken away.

Its a misunderstanding about our politicians making decisions.

Outside of the EU we will still need to follow agreements made on taxes, VAT and all sorts of other things because they are also part of the WTO rules and trade agreements. Our politicians will not be able just to make these decisions unilaterally.

There's a whole host of other things too, but hey facts and that aren't appealing to leavers.

We managed fine before we signed the Maastricht Treaty, which took us from a trading block ( fine ) to a political union ( not fine & no one voted for it)

UK Parliament voted for it.
We had a GE 4 years later in which a pro EU party (Blairs Labour) was voted in with a huge majority... voted back in 2 more GE's - the Will of the People an all that! or are you saying we didn't know what we were voting for?

One big benefit was the set up of co-op on policing and security, which has helped catch and bring back criminals across Europe.

The way that the EU have behaved over the past 2 years has only made me want to leave even more.

Can no one see how much power they have over us? "You can leave anytime you want, of course you can (but we are going to make it virtually impossible, tie your government in knots and refuse to negotiate)". So in truth we can't leave. I guess we will end up staying now. No doubt May will lise the vote tomorrow, Brexit will be delayed, causing chaos and will eventually be cancelled. The EU will then get what they want, rather like an abusive partner exerting financial control to prevent their partner from leaving.

If we do stay our government wants to make pretty damn sure that they start exerting themselves within the EU and not hiding behind laws which you all seem to think we can ignore anyway.

What an absolute shambles this government has made of this.

What remainers fail to understand is if we’re not happy with ‘our politicians’ we can vote them out after 5 years.
New political parties spring up ( UKIP for example ) we have choices.
And if one more person tells me I have control over EU decisions - because I can vote for MEP’s - I’ll scream.
We have NO CONTROL over EU decisions, because even if our MEP’s vote against some new rule, if other countries vote for it it’s game over.
We have no control.
Leavers want freedom.
If you want to be ruled & dictated to by rich middle aged white men in Brussels go & live there.

"You can leave anytime you want, of course you can (but we are going to make it virtually impossible, tie your government in knots and refuse to negotiate)". So in truth we can't leave

Crap! we can leave very easily, but May lost her Majority and is in hock to the DUP who will not allow any separation of Ulster from the UK to sort out the NI border, add in tory party splits and it is the UK that has made Brexit very difficult NOT the EU.

1tisILeClerc

I feel bad for anyone suffering because of this but honestly, prior to this what have you done to help people less well off than you? You can't expect people that are struggling to vote in a way that supports your life.

Many people in this country have been ignored by successive governments. I've not noticed the "haves" showing much concern about the "have nots" before now and yet suddenly everyone is expecting the "have nots" to vote in the interests of the "haves".

Honestly, why should a family, living in a hostel on UC care whether we can travel to Europe easily, or own holiday homes in Spain or work in other EU countries? These options aren't available to them. What they see is a lack of housing, lack of employment opportunities. Whether Brexit was right or not many people voted for change, because none of our current politicians will do anything.

The sort of people who voted for Blair are the sort of people who love to exploit low skilled immigrants - that’s why they don’t want brexit.

Crap! we can leave very easily, but May lost her Majority and is in hock to the DUP who will not allow any separation of Ulster from the UK to sort out the NI border, add in tory party splits and it is the UK that has made Brexit very difficult NOT the EU.

We can leave, but not easily. The EU have offered us a shitty deal and refuse to further. They know that if they tie us up long enough that eventually we are likely to abandon Brexit. But what will the relationship be like then?

"We have NO CONTROL over EU decisions, because even if our MEP’s vote against some new rule, if other countries vote for it it’s game over. "

Of course we have some control over EU decisions, we have MEPs and our ministers are on the council. What we don't have is total control, however it is still democractic.

You don't really have any control over the politicians in the UK either, they vote with a whip, are selected by central lists and new parties invariable make little impact. UKIP were not the driving force behind the referendum, the Back Bench Business Committee were.

We are not "ruled" by Brussles, in fact the EU has little to no influence over the vast majority of fiscal policy or domestic legal issues dealt with by the home office.

You can use emotive arguments all you like, but they aren't correct.

Weetabixandshreddies

I think you’ll find that it was May's own red lines that constrained the negotiations. The EU could only offer a Canada or Korea style FTA within the framework of those red lines, but May wanted to try and cherry pick the best bits of the SM without paying into it, and as a result has cobbled together a poor WA and a nebulous political declaration.

Weetabixandshreddies
What a load of self pitying rubbish. The EU are not 'bullying' the UK.
Of course the UK can leave as soon as it wants but as the UK is so tightly integrated into the EU you can't just walk out. Actually you can, which is what 'no deal' means. At that point in practice there would be NO trade at all, meaning NO food coming into the UK, and ferries, planes and Eurotunnel would stop.
The UK 'claimed' it wants to leave, why should the EU do anything at all? If you leave your club membership, do you expect them to run after you with flowers begging you to stay?
Brexit is taking so long because it has dawned on government that it is bloody difficult to rewrite 40 odd years of complicated legal treaties and trade agreements and can't be done quickly. The WA is not really a 'deal' as such, it is mostly an agenda of things that need discussing. That is 585 pages of topic areas, not the actual negotiation.
Just because YOU don't want to be in the EU why should 16 million who voted to stay in, and the others who couldn't be bothered to vote be dragged out?

Exactly - the EU have deliberately offed us a shit deal so we reject it & end up never leaving.
They want our money.
Absolutely bastards.
Even if I’d voted remain i’d be disgusted with them.

"The EU have offered us a shitty deal and refuse to further"

This is rubbish.

The EU has agreed a withdrawal agreement with the UK that allows the UK to maintain its red line positions, whilst keeping to other internationally binding agreements, and one which will not plunge the UK economy over a cliff.

Portraying this as something the EU has done to the UK is ridiculous and incorrect.