Can we have a list of all the things we will be able to do once outside the E.U. that we can’t do now

[Bearbehind]

With 11 weeks to go this should be easy but it’s clear from other threads that people still think things that have nothing to do with the E.U. will change when we leave.

Can we have a list of tangible positive things that can only happen by leaving.

@Elfinablender @time4chocolate @Namechangeragain01

THIS! Exactly.

And remainers still aren't listening. Don't you want to know why this happened? Look at it this way, if your toddler is having a tantrum you try to find out why. You KNOW they are being unreasonable, you know it's silly, but you listen to what they are saying and work out what is going on BEHIIND the tantrum.

Leave voters (well some of them) were throwing a tantrum. But with bloody good reason. If we/they had been actually listened to this wouldn't have happened. You and the governement are not actively listening. Maybe we don't couch it in terms you like, maybe we don't have the language you do, but there is reason behind our anger.

We could have found a middle ground. Do you really think every single Brexit voter is a thick racist? Don't you think it may be a bit more involved that that? You dismiss our lived experiences over and over as lies, wrong, biased or anecdotes. And when you do have to concede a point to us we get told its for 'the greater good'.

It didn't have to come to Brexit. And now it has.

No such thing as WC MC

And we're banging on about it because there was a very clear divide down the classes when it came to the vote

{The only positive I can really see is the fishing quotas to be honest. }
Sorry but there is a snag here. The varieties of fish caught in much of the 'British' waters aren't consumed by 'Brits' so they are sold to the French and Spanish. Brits prefer cod, haddock and a few others, typically from the North and Atlantic, often caught by larger European ships I think.

Keeping steelworks and other industry open through massive subsidies is just delaying the inevitable. If the industry is failing so badly, due to the world market it would be better to close and start something new through retraining. The government throwing money at an industry (possibly overseas owners) is not necessarily better than sending all the workers home on the 'dole'. What is lost in this approach is of course the social cohesion of work, which needs to be factored into the grand equation. Throw good money after bad, or all on the dole on antidepressants? It needs a bit of creative 'social engineering' but that is far too hard for any UK government to really take on board.
Steelworkers or similar are at least semi skilled, if not greater, so given suitable retraining could be reused as building trades and actually improve and build new housing in their won area. Alternatively sit around and whinge that it is all so bad.

Glitterinmykeyboard
And we're banging on about it because there was a very clear divide down the classes when it came to the vote
Really?
Could you support that assertion

@Ta1kinPeace yeah, IPSOS has the whole breakdown.

Just on the school run so can’t go into more depth and drill down sorry

Glitterinmykeyboard
It's possibly not occurring to you but 'the poor' do have a choice, and while in the EU you could make it.
If there is no work locally, you have 3 choices.
1:Sit on your arse and complain at the government.
2:Be enterprising and set yourself up doing something.
3:Move somewhere where there is more work.

The arguments here are about those from particularly the accession countries that come to the UK to work, particularly seasonal work. You are perfectly entitles, through being a member of the EU to go abroad and find work. The ones you are complaining about are doing just that.

And we're banging on about it because there was a very clear divide down the classes when it came to the vote

So a ex head teacher is WC? or my cousin, an ex barrister is wc too? both leave.

IF there is some sort of divide it is across educational attainment and age.

You are lumping all 17m into some sort of oppressed minority who have arisen to crush the elite! which is not the case.

Leave targeted a demographic who hadn't previously voted, a swing of 650,000 voters would have meant remain winning, a small percentage of the UK population.

But principally why Leave won is that they had a far far better campaign with some very charismatic and plausible leaders, it had SFA to do with a few factory closures or the well paid workers of Nissan and the surrounding area would have voted to remain.

Are you being purposely obtuse?

Of course not every leave voter was WC. That’s a ridiculous assumption. But a lot more of the WC voted leave, vastly more. Again, ignoring our lived experience and what we are telling you. Yes, you’re right, it was the shiny bus that made us vote leave.

IPSOS has the whole breakdown
If you mean this
www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
41% of AB voted leave
so it was NOT a class issue

{ it had SFA to do with a few factory closures or the well paid workers of Nissan and the surrounding area would have voted to remain}
Turkeys voting for Christmas. After having a 'pep talk' by the management explaining that leaving gives a high risk of factory closure , significant numbers still voted leave.
The only thing less subtle would have been to say that if you vote leave you are sacked.

{Yes, you’re right, it was the shiny bus that made us vote leave.}
So you didn't question where the money comes from and why it might suddenly have appeared?
Leavers keep saying they did loads of research, It doesn't take a lot of thinking to find these sorts of answers. 30 seconds on google will do it.

Throw good money after bad, or all on the dole on antidepressants? It needs a bit of creative 'social engineering' but that is far too hard for any UK government to really take on board.

So, fwiw, I think you and I may be in agreement on the matter. My understanding of engaging with the working classes doesn't mean delivering what they want in every instance. But I do think being honest and clear about the motives should be mandatory.

Firstly, instead of hiding behind the EU, it means constructing a discourse between the interested parties that recognises that the situation is complicated and doesn't dissolve in to sound bites.

It means being honest about the fallout of your decisions and mitigating it where possible.

It means not feeding the idea that people are poor because they brought it on themselves and recognise that some people get fucked over in shifting economies. If the media engaged with this in particular, listened and could be compassionate about this point, then maybe wouldn't be in this mess.

The NatCen report on voter demographics is interesting - it's a mix of age, education, affluence, nationalism:

We find three distinct groups that made up the vote to Leave:

• Economically deprived, anti-immigration. Those with least economic resources and who are most anti-immigration and nationalistic. Various labels can be attached to this group, such as the ‘left behind’ or ‘just about managing’. They form the bedrock of UKIP support and have been politically disengaged in the past.

• Affluent Eurosceptics. This group are more Conservative than UKIP and more middle class. Yes, they are antiimmigration but they are also interested in Britain’s indepedence and are noticeably anti-welfare

• Older working classes. They are on low incomes and have little in the way of formal qualifications – but don’t feel poor or badly educated. They are concerned about immigration and changing identity but are socially different to the first group

natcen.ac.uk/media/1319222/natcen_brexplanations-report-final-web2.pdf

"Yes, you’re right, it was the shiny bus that made us vote leave"

Well actually Dominic Cummings focused the leave campaign on two threads, the £350m and Turkey joining. He especially focused this on the group that were not regular voters.

He thinks, supported by the data, that this was the most important claim.

Robert Peston and other journaists says when talking to the public that the £350m is the question they are asked most about Brexit.

So everyone else thinks the £350m was important, just ardent leavers here that don't.

But fuck the experts right, its all about confirmation bias.

LOL! hardly, the exact opposite is true, Remain MPs dominate Westminster

Yes, and it hasn’t made much of a difference yet. I think probably we have all learnt MPs are, in the most part, in it for themselves. Time will tell if the domination is all powerful or it just falls by the wayside when push comes to shove.

Yes, you’re right, it was the shiny bus that made us vote leave

You are doing it again..."us" as if all leavers are sort of homogeneous grouping... they are not.

As for the bus, i didn't even mention that, though many on the Leave side said it won for them! if it made no difference, they'd not have used it, during the referendum ALL the leave politicians went to great lengths to highlight the bus and its untrue message.

Having charismatic leaders in any campaign is essential.

What i'm saying is that you were gamed by Politicians who have used Brexit and the issues the UK has for their own ends

LeClerc
It's possibly not occurring to you but 'the poor' do have a choice, and while in the EU you could make it.
If there is no work locally, you have 3 choices.
1:Sit on your arse and complain at the government.
2:Be enterprising and set yourself up doing something.
3:Move somewhere where there is more work.
The arguments here are about those from particularly the accession countries that come to the UK to work, particularly seasonal work. You are perfectly entitles, through being a member of the EU to go abroad and find work. The ones you are complaining about are doing just that.

Excellent advice here from a Remainer for the disadvantaged people of Stoke. You make some very good points especially for poor people with young children who could easily find good jobs in Romania. Do you think the Revoke campaign has time to get sandwich boards and posters made in time for tomorrow's big speech?

"Excellent advice here from a Remainer for the disadvantaged people of Stoke."

Ahh Stoke, where the campaign won on immigration, year 93% of the population are white British and the largest immigrant group comes from Pakistan and makes up 1.8% of the population.

Stoke on Trent's deindustrialisation has nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with British government's own polices.

But do you agree that the solution in towns like Stoke is for people to move to another country? Do you lot really believe in Freedom of Movement as a solution to unemployment? I don't think I realised that until now. You actually want a mobile troop of cheap labour like something out of Les Miserables.

The bus only needed to persuade 2% of the voters to change their vote, and it did.

"But do you agree that the solution in towns like Stoke is for people to move to another country? "

If that is an opportunity, yes. There should also be opportunities for rejuvenating industries etc. There will be less opportunities for all of the populations of these areas following brexit, not more.

"You actually want a mobile troop of cheap labour like something out of Les Miserables."

Strawman argument.

But do you agree that the solution in towns like Stoke is for people to move to another country? Do you lot really believe in Freedom of Movement as a solution to unemployment?

I got a job in France when i was unemployed here in Cornwall, later when i still couldn't get work locally, i moved to Reading... i fuking hated it!
Lots of friends in construction worked in Germany in the 80s & 90s.

I'm not so called middle class and was brought up in (what many would consider) poverty, we didn't blame the Government or the EEC/EU.

BUT it's extremely difficult to up sticks, many cannot and we are not all the same.

Governments need to do far more to stimulate local employment, through training, transport links and decent welfare for those that cannot help themselves.

{Stoke on Trent's deindustrialisation has nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with British government's own polices.}
That needs splitting in two. Why SHOULD the government 'provide' work in Stoke, or anywhere else? They should certainly be assisting with getting industrial activity maximised and with the best chances of flourishing and growing, preferably exporting as it makes the UK more wealthy overall. Deindistrialisation, maybe the government should have assisted over the few hundred years to help keep the potteries and other industry 'competitive' but as an assistance, so long term low rate loans tied to good management.
I was made redundant a while back. The morning I was due to go to 'sign on' I had actually negotiated a weeks work in Europe.
I could have just lined up and got whatever money it might be.

We will be able to change allergen info on food labels that better.reflect.the food allergies in the UK, rather than across the UK as a whole.

This sentence makes no sense at all.

@Reythelastjedi , pretty sure we are all humans. Last time I looked. And if we want to sell foodstuffs to EU we have to label things according to that market.

Well, exactly.

Don't know why Brexiteers think the UK is something special on a world scale.

Sad really. An unprecedented fuck up just to prove a point.....