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Brexit

Any Leavers here?

560 replies

HoyPolloy · 09/01/2019 16:22

Been reading all these threads on here about Brexit and just wondered if anyone voted Leave?
Fwiw, I did.
If you voted Leave what do you anticipate will happen before 29/03?

Dont be shy, I can't be the only Leaver on here!Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Janus · 10/01/2019 13:12

I heard a suggestion this morning where we have a series of votes. First one gives all possible options, no deal, Norway, Canada, remain etc and the one with the lowest votes gets knocked off and we all vote again until there’s only one remaining. Seemed a good idea to me!

surferjet · 10/01/2019 13:13

BorisBogtrotter

I’m no angel no.
But I would never use someone’s child to make some pathetic attempt at point scoring.
You don’t bring up what I said in a nice way, it was snide and designed to hurt and embarrass me.
Thankfully other people agreed & your post has been deleted.
& fwiw, I wasn’t the one who reported you.

BorisBogtrotter · 10/01/2019 13:14

Btw Did you know Jacob Rees Mogg was proposing two referendums prior to the vote?

You know when he thought it might not go his way.

Farage said he would keep campaigning on the same result too.

But they got a shock win, and they will never let it go, because it would never happen again.

Luckyme2 · 10/01/2019 13:14

I voted Leave and just wish the govt would get on with it!

Like a PP this statement always puzzles me too. Article 50 clearly states that if a country wants to leave it happens 2 years from the date it is requested. That is going to happen. What the government are trying to do now is put a deal in place to try to make it as painless as possible. But leaving can't happen earlier than the 2 years. So why do people say "I wish we could just get on with it"? We are getting on with it! I voted remain by the way. Can anyone who ever says they just want to get on with things explain what they mean by that please?

BorisBogtrotter · 10/01/2019 13:15

"You don’t bring up what I said in a nice way, it was snide and designed to hurt and embarrass me. "

No it wasn't it was an accurate point about why you voted leave.

Sorry, but your faux outrage is pitiful. Someone directly quoted you on here and showed that I was right, but hey facts aren't your strong point.

GirlsBlouse17 · 10/01/2019 13:20

I wrote this a couple of months after the referendum. How naive I was.

Having watched a documentary recently about the making of the London Olympics 2012 Opening Ceremony, I was reminded of the sheer skill, innovation and creativity possessed by this nation. This left no doubt in my mind that the UK is completely capable of making a huge success outside the EU.
The first thing the people of the UK need to do is to focus on positive outcomes and opportunities created by the historic decision to leave the EU. Everyone, including those who voted to remain, need to put aside all negativity and differences and anger. Whether you voted to exit or not, it is now going to happen and so all thoughts of doom and disaster are wasted energy and need to be put aside. Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down.
Of course there is a risk to exiting the EU. However, there was always a risk to staying in the EU as it is a changing entity. A vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo. The UK will face challenges as it has always done and there will be those who lose out because of Brexit but there will also be those who gain. The EU however also faces an uncertain future. The Euro is in trouble and requires fiscal and budgetary union for any chance of survival. The EU’s economic performance has been poor and its share of world GDP is set to fall. It has failed to keep up with 21st Century globalisation and emerging markets. Further integration is not popular. The EU needs to change radically if it is to survive.
Now the UK has a new PM, Theresa May in place as well as a new Cabinet, the Government needs to appoint the best advisors and negotiators in the land who can help secure the UK the best deal with the EU. The Government should take its time to work out what the best outcome is for the UK before declaring article 50. The UK is in a good position to secure a favourable deal with the EU. We are the biggest importer within the EU and in fact import more from the EU than the USA. It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.
The Government needs to ensure that our fishing industry regains rights of fishing areas that it has lost previously under the EU Common Fisheries Policy. EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed.
It is important to remember that, although we have voted to leave the EU, we are still friends with our European neighbours and will continue to maintain a close relationship with them and support them in whatever way we can.
We should now open up to the rest of the world.
Our Government should secure and enhance friendships and relationships with other countries. They need to look at trading partnerships and free trade agreements (FTAs) with all countries we wish to trade with. Australia has already announced it wishes to look at trade deals with the UK. China and India are set to be the future trading powers so we need to start discussions with them. We could possibly forge a link with NAFTA (North American free trade bloc). We should look at our relationship with the Commonwealth and foster trade and agreements with our Commonwealth partners. The EU is the only trading bloc in the world that requires such stringent conditions on its members and this has stifled competition and productivity over a number of years rather than promoting it. We are the sixth largest economy in the world and so other countries will want to do business with us.
Our Government should ease its focus on achieving a balanced budget by 2020. Reducing our debt is still important but should now be done over a longer period and the Government should spend more money on capital projects to help counteract the slowing of growth. It should also look at reducing the tax burden further.
Our police and legal system should stamp down and eradicate racism and racist attacks on our fellow migrants as this is not acceptable. The UK is still a society that welcomes people of all ethnicities, cultures, religions and countries. Racism was not what Brexit was about.
The Government needs to ensure that all project funding commitments by the EU shall be stuck to until we have left the EU. Also, it should ensure that UK organisations and individuals are not discriminated by the EU leading up to our exit.
Once we leave the EU, the Government should commit to funding existing projects previously funded by the EU for at least another three years until it has a department or system in place to make decisions about continuing or ending project funding.
The amount that the UK paid towards the EU budget should be used for capital investment projects within the UK and also for improving and supporting the NHS. The capital projects to improve our infrastructure such as roads will help boost aggregate demand in the UK and help counteract any negative effects on GDP of leaving the EU. The Government should spend money to improve areas of our country that have been neglected or just need fixing.
UK exports will be cheaper due to the reduced value of Sterling. This is an opportunity to promote and increase what we sell to the rest of the world. We must take advantage of this.
UK imports will be more expensive due to the reduced value of Sterling and possible import tariffs. The Government could provide tax breaks to ease the burden on companies that import.
We should focus on buying British goods and supporting our businesses.
We have many of the greatest universities in the world and the Government should invest more via research grants to help boost our universities success even more.
The City of London has great financial institutions and London is one of the world’s top financial centres. It is renowned for its flexibility, resourcefulness, connections, highly skilled workforce, experience. The City with the support of the Government should ensure that it does everything so that it remains one of, if not the most attractive centre for finance in the world.
Finally, we, the UK need to stop underestimating what our country can achieve. Our history has shown what we can do. We still do and will continue to do. We were the pioneers of the industrial revolution. We invented the train, the telephone, the computer, the internet for example. We discovered penicillin, DNA, the laws of gravity. We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few! Football, rugby, cricket all came from our country. Our reach and influence is global. We are not a great empire anymore and we have no desire to be but our systems of politics, law, finance are duplicated around the world. So let’s not underestimate ourselves. I have great confidence in our younger generation to continue what previous generations have done. They are bright, intelligent, skilled, energetic, creative. They and older generations have the ability to make a success of our exit from the EU. We all just need to believe in ourselves and remain calm and confident.
We have been in the EU for 43 years, not really a long time in the scheme of things.
So let’s not be afraid and let us take this challenge on and show what we can do!

bellinisurge · 10/01/2019 13:21

Sorry @GirlsBlouse17 , you are right. That was very naive.

1tisILeClerc · 10/01/2019 13:22

The WA as Mrs May is 'promoting' is NOT the full deal. It fixes down 3 areas only, Citizens rights being one.
Everything else needs negotiation.
The EU only want to see a decision on 29 March. The ONLY choices are no deal (the default position if the other two are not requested), acceptance of the WA AS IT IS, NO amendments, or a revoke of A50.
How the UK makes it's mind up as to which of the 3 is down to the UK. If a referendum or vote happens, then great. If 3 MPs, a revoke, no deal and WA 'supporter' dance naked around a fire until only 1 is standing, then the EU will accept that decision.

twofingerstoEverything · 10/01/2019 13:22

How sad that the first response to the OP opened with the 'thick scum' trope so regularly trotted out by Leavers. So, before anyone has a chance to write anything the tone is set and discussion is steered in a particular direction.

I don't think any of the Leavers on this thread have made any attempt at answering the original question, which is a shame. Mind you, the OP, also didn't say what s/he thought would happen between now and 29th March

HateIsNotGood · 10/01/2019 13:24

But Boris you have quoted surfer from August 3rd - that's a long time ago really. Why would you trawl through so many posts of hers to do that?

Genuine question.

1tisILeClerc · 10/01/2019 13:26

{But leaving can't happen earlier than the 2 years.}
No, 2 years is the maximum. Mrs May could go to Brussels this afternoon and hand the letter in.
It would be seen as undemocratic in the UK but legally for the EU (and the rest of the world) she could 'just do it'.

BorisBogtrotter · 10/01/2019 13:27

So many holes in that I don't know where to start. But lets give it a go:

"Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down."

Ok, well actually no we are a democracy and opposition, dissent and debate are an active part of that. Otherwise this applies first to all eurosceptics since 1975. This is effectively a way of stopping the debate.

Also its bollocks regarding the impact on the economy.

NAFTA - we aren'#t in north america, and NAFTA countries aren't a trade bloc with a customs union. Big misunderstanding.

. "EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed."

Not true, UK domestic polcies are down to that. Also 75% of UK catch is exported to the EU, outside of the single market this is subject to tariffs and won't be sold.

I see you have also repeated the EU diminishing share of world trade, thing. Its larger in nominal and real terms than ever, but actually is a smaller share because of developing economies becoming more active in world trade.

But if you don't get that you don't really understand the rest of the stuff you have written. Which is why its clap trap and pseudo intellectual rubbish.

BorisBogtrotter · 10/01/2019 13:27

Why would I do that?

Because I remembered it.

I didn't trawl.

GirlsBlouse17 · 10/01/2019 13:33

I think what will happen now is that after some promises and reassurances by Theresa May, the WA will go back and forwards a couple of times and will then be voted for. Parliament doesn't want no deal, there doesn't seem to be the political momentum for a second referendum in Parliament, so the only option will be her deal. I hope someone will tell me I'm wrong

Luckyme2 · 10/01/2019 13:34

Mrs May could go to Brussels this afternoon and hand the letter in

The 2 years can only be stopped by a WA of some sort though can't it? Not a unilateral letter?

You are right though. My earlier post suggested that it could not happen in any way before the end of the 2 year period, whereas it actually could if a WA was in place between the UK and EU before then. My point is still the same though - to all those saying they just want to get on with it - that that is what the government is trying to do. Again though, it is an agreement process - not a unilateral one. If terms aren't agreed and you "just want out" then you have to wait for the end of the 2 year period.

icannotremember · 10/01/2019 13:34

I remember many of the posts made by MNers who have been very vocal about leave and whose arguments have been memorable for their inaccuracy and foolishness. Surprisingly enough, when you are very concerned about a subject and you keep seeing the same few people making the same ridiculous arguments about it, you do tend to remember that.

1tisILeClerc · 10/01/2019 13:39

{GirlsBlouse17}
That was a great piece of writing. Knowing what you do now how do you think it varies from what you wrote then?
To me I am sad that you felt that the EU was holding back some possibilities, as I am pretty sure you were incorrect as in general the EU tries to improve people's lives with an acceptance that you can't please everyone all the time.
In many ways the EU is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't and trying to get the best for 500 Million people with a diverse viewpoint is difficult. You highlighted some great achievements by the UK, perhaps not appreciating that others will have has some impact.

surferjet · 10/01/2019 13:41

Sorry, but your faux outrage is pitiful. Someone directly quoted you on here and showed that I was right, but hey facts aren't your strong point

If you’d directly quoted me your post wouldn’t have been deleted - facts are clearly not your strong point either.

umpteennamechanges · 10/01/2019 13:44

I'm a remainer...I'd need to think about EU reforms as it's not something I've put a lot of thought into.

Mainly because before the referendum I really didn't see (or perhaps was too concerned with my own life to see) the impact some things were having on other people's view of the EU. I haven't taken into account the views of people who see things differently to me and have just written it off as racism because that was easy rather than think about the complexity of it all. I think some people are racist but that's not the majority who have some good points. I think this is the world view Leavers see as the 'liberal elite', and I definitely concede that there is truth in this.

My concerns first and foremost before EU reforms would be to get to grips with the complex reasons people voted to leave and come up with domestic policies to address them. Many of the issues people were concerned about could be easily addressed with UK policies and don't actually need EU reform....things like:

  • Concerns about housing, I haven't looked at the stats but my feeling is the housing crisis has been caused more by lots of people becoming mini-landlords and property investors than by net migration
  • Ensuring those areas with higher immigration numbers get the dividend in terms of budget to ensure adequate provision of services. Too much wealth is retained in the SE and London
  • More investment in the Northern Powerhouse and then after that in parts of the NE, Midlands, Wales. Policies that genuinely (not just lip service) start to spread opportunities around the UK. We're a small country, there's no reason we can't be much less London/SE centric
  • A focus on welcoming integration - immigrants are welcome who are happy to have a positive impact (the vast majority) which ultimately means being tougher on those that aren't

These are just initial thoughts - they'd need tonnes of work. Particularly the latter which is sensitive both to immigrants and non-immigrants.

1tisILeClerc · 10/01/2019 13:46

{Mrs May could go to Brussels this afternoon and hand the letter in}
That is definitely the case for the WA. The letter being an official acceptance of it.
I have a feeling that Revoke can also be requested at any time.
No deal is a 'default' that happens on 29 March regardless but the EU would probably accept a 'I want no deal now' letter.
They would think she was totally deranged of course but that may not be a 'legal' issue.

Bearbehind · 10/01/2019 13:46

surfer I don’t understand why boris post was deleted, other than because it was reported.

It was not rude or spiteful.

It was factually correct based on comments you have made in the past.

surferjet · 10/01/2019 13:48

It was spiteful.

If it wasn’t it wouldn’t have been deleted.

Anyway, enough derailing.

Sorry op. I hope your thread improves!

Luckyme2 · 10/01/2019 13:49

1tislLeClerc oh I see.
OK. I still get irrationally bugged when people say they just want to get on with it though! Because there is a process! and because I just want us never to leave

umpteennamechanges · 10/01/2019 13:50

I personally think something like the policies above would go a long way to addressing most of the issues the majority of Leavers have.

Then some EU reforms (which is the bit I haven't got an answer for at the moment as I need to think about it)

Then there would just be a hardcore of Brexiters left - the Eurosceptics who I don't think could ever be persuaded.

Clearly (to me) the issue has been that political parties and others like me have been out of touch and too easily dismissed concerns. That has been the biggest lesson to me.

I made the mistake of thinking that just because I'm from Stoke originally, I aren't part of the liberal elite. But really I am and can see I've been patronising in the past rather than listening to genuine worries people have (that I might share in the same circumstances as them).

My issue with Brexit is that it won't actually address many of these concerns and will actually make things much worse for many of those that voted for it.

1tisILeClerc · 10/01/2019 13:51

umpteennamechanges
All of your list are close to identical to all our cousins across Europe, and further afield, as I presume you are considering.
Leaving the EU is a mistake as some of them have cross border implications, and as the saying goes, a problem shared is a problem halved. Not being in the EU makes it a little harder.

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