Any Leavers here?

[HoyPolloy]

Been reading all these threads on here about Brexit and just wondered if anyone voted Leave?
Fwiw, I did.
If you voted Leave what do you anticipate will happen before 29/03?

Dont be shy, I can't be the only Leaver on here!

Actually because of the healthy migrant factor immigrants are less likely to use health services, and so don't put a strain on these resources.

Exactly.

You start replacing heathy immigrants with aged, retired expats and see how much that helps scarce resources!

Boris and Bear. Of course there are advantages to the UK of a steady supply of cheap young healthy workers thanks to FOM. I am an employer I understand the pros. I am just asking you to understand the cons. It is not a myth that wages have been suppressed and rental prices have risen because of it. It is not trivial that school capacity has been squeezed in some areas and very difficult to plan for. FOM is a mixed blessing - can you please acknowledge that otherwise there can be no sensible discussion on here.

But the whole point is the pros outweigh the cons.

They don't use the NHS?? Bollocks, they don't break bones, don't get pregnant, don't get ill? Utter rubbish. Everytime I've been at the doctors it's young couples with babies going in, no wonder that the NHS is stretched

sonly no one has said they don’t use the NHS at all, only that they use it proportionately less than say retired expats.

No one is denying immigration causes some issues but it is entirely wrong to say that we should stop it because of those few issues when it provides a net benefit.

It’s the failure to see the bigger picture that is the problem here.

Expats have paid a lifetime of tax though haven't they?

Here in the NW of England when there was an influx of people from Poland a few years ago, signs had to be put up in local parks warning them not to eat the fish from the lakes as they were catching them for food. A family member who works for the council was involved in putting the signs up. It was well known that whilst over here they spent as little as possible in order to take/send as much money home as they could.
Most of the EU nationals I know are (without sounding judgemental) low skilled. I obviously move in the wrong circles as a pp who claimed that they were all professionals.

{Are you actually saying you do not know any EU citizens that are not professionals and not married to Brits? If that is true, you are a classic example of someone who lives in a remainer bubble so we can take all your opinions on Brexit with a pinch of salt.}
What kind of weird shit are you on?
I know all sorts of people from many places around the world. While it is true I did not have daily conversations with the very poor either immigrants or British citizens it does not make me blind.
I have worked briefly with people in many countries where getting ill is a luxury. If they are sick, they can't work and there is no state health service to make them well. If the illness is prolonged, they will go hungry. There is no pension, so they have to save, of they can, or work until they die.

" It is not a myth that wages have been suppressed "

The impact of Eu immigration on wages has been extremely small, in fact far smaller than the increase to minimum wage over this time and the increases to tax threshold. So its entirely negated.

Using it as a justification for voting leave is ridiculous.

" It is not trivial that school capacity has been squeezed in some areas and very difficult to plan for. "

Most children of EU parents were actually born here and are therefore easy to plan for. The tiny number that arrive with parents have minimal impact.

Again repeating things doesn't make them true!

" Everytime I've been at the doctors it's young couples with babies going in, no wonder that the NHS is stretched"

Rubbish.

By far the biggest strain on the NHS is the ageing population, not immigrants

In fact if immigration fell, the tax reciepts would also fall, and there wouldn't be a corresponding fall in demand so the impact on the NHS would be negative.

HoyPolloy
I remember that fish incident.
if you were referring to me, yes the European ex pats I used to associate with were professionals. I was also aware, but was not friends with, many seasonal workers who would be out in the fields doing back breaking work for 12 hours a day. They would not have appreciated me talking to them as they worked as their pay would have been docked.
What it seems here is that the relevance of immigration is being overblown by some who refuse to see the bigger picture.
The difference is stark. Javid rushes back from holiday because 100 'immigrants' get across the channel. Germany in 2015 took in 800,000 and found ways of harnessing young talent which has boosted Germany's economy.

But the ageing population have paid into this country!

I don't think many people thought it would be easy to Leave

This position is fascinating. The narrative of the Leave campaign started as EXACTLY this: it was going to be the easiest deal in history; we were going to subject the EU to 'the row of the summer' (if it did happen, I missed it); we had all the cards; there would be no downside, only an upside.

The fascinating part is how the narrative has changed, slowly but inexorably, ever since the realities of trying to negotiate a leaving position made themselves known. We end up with the PM admitting that it will be hard and with ministers saying that despite things like tomatoes probably becoming scarce, we'll still be able to find something to eat.

"But the ageing population have paid into this country!"

EU immigrants are net contributors to the country, as a group they put more in than they take out.

Expats have paid a lifetime of tax though haven't they?
How do you work that out? Depends on whether they worked, whether they paid tax, whether they emigrated when young...huge generalization.

Expats have paid a lifetime of tax though haven't they?

Immigrants contribute more than they cost on the whole.

No one has even attempted to dispute this yet people are happy to make ourselves worse off for some kind of ‘feeling’

They contribute more? How's that, the fact that more houses have to be built? The school near me has served perfectly well for years, but now it's lost half of its playing field to make the building bigger

Talk to anyone who is German to see how happy they are having a huge amount of immigrants. My German friend says there are posters everywhere offering them money to go home

They contribute more in tax than they receive in benefits and benefits in kind.

Your anecdotal story shows no nuance.

I voted Leave. I had just moved back here after nearly 2 decades away and thought that we needed to make a go of things on our own. After very positive experiences of working with Brits I thought we would have enough intelligent people to make a success of leaving Europe and being a major player in the world.

Now that I am back and have had time to see what really goes on here I have changed my mind about it. I don't care if there is another referendum and if there is I will probably vote to remain.

We just have too many naysayers in this country to make a positive go of it. Also, our politicians are not up to the task. It was a great opportunity to turn our country around but as a nation we do not have the backbone, intelligence or collective will to do it. I think it is better now if we just cancel it and submit ourselves to the European project.

"and thought that we needed to make a go of things on our own."

So no trade deals, no WTO etc?

Or do you mean you just thought we should leave the EU.

"We just have too many naysayers in this country to make a positive go of it."

Or the facts go against the claims that leave campaigners made? Belief will not make a good deal.

sonly why are you refusing to look at the full picture.

You cannot make decisions based on one element without considering how that element fits into the wider situation?

Do you honestly think curbing immigration is go8ng to resolve all our ills?

Can you really not see that, by trying to do that by leaving the EU, we just make everything much worse.

But the EU isn't what we joined, we joined a common market, something to make trade easier not to turn our country into a foreign land

"But the EU isn't what we joined, we joined a common market, something to make trade easier not to turn our country into a foreign land"

Actually the political aspect of the EEC was well known, and made clear in the 1975 referendum.

How has our country turned into a foreign land?

Do you not go out Boris