Any Leavers here?

[HoyPolloy]

Been reading all these threads on here about Brexit and just wondered if anyone voted Leave?
Fwiw, I did.
If you voted Leave what do you anticipate will happen before 29/03?

Dont be shy, I can't be the only Leaver on here!

KennDodd
Hey! Thank you.
He’s actually doing very well & off to university in September ( art type thing )
But thanks again - I’snt kindness so much nicer than spite.

Good news Surferjet

In the news... Hungarian PM Orban is talking of an anti immigration 'pact' with Italy and Poland. Wants to take on Macron who appears to be very pro-immigration.
Populism appears to be on the rise in Europe.
Scary times.

Or EU nations are discussing immigration and different views are emerging in that discussion. Which is not the same as how a journalist or pseudo journalist characterises it on Twitter or wherever you get "populism on the rise" from.

Re an EU Army:
Why all the negativity?
In any war the 'allies' need to be able to communicate and work well together, to understand the instructions from commanders effectively.
ALL wars have been fought with both 'sides' having allies.
If the UK joined an EU Army, it would most likely increase job and career prospects and the standards of living for UK troops which apparently are pretty bad at present. That would be a big plus. Many EU countries troops train together anyway, so an EU army is more a case of formalising command structures and making efficiencies with weapons etc where commonality of gear helps the overall cost fall.
Granted the situation is different now but the British Army numbers around 82,000 now (?). In WW1 over 100,000 died or were seriously wounded on a single day. Sad for humanity, but war pays and brings about opportunities, although the chaos often means the 'wrong' people benefit most. Discounting the troops killed and wounded, the USA did VERY well with WW2. I forget the numbers now but one 'guided missile' now costs over £10,000, which when fired might be used to destroy a house or small factory.

HateIsNotGood " Boris only copy and pasted someone else's workings so it really is a matter of choice who's workings you prefer. You prefer Boris' and I prefer mine."

Except your workings show a 5% fall in wages in one year.

The estimated data from the FT link where you got the 5% fall in wages from says it was from 5 percent in real terms between 1992 and 2017, or 0.17 per annumn difference.

Also the article quotes that
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at www.ft.com/tour.
www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-bb44-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5
" pay still increased dramatically for those born in the UK. Those in the bottom tenth of the wage scale saw their pay increase by 49 per cent over the same period. "

So you might prefer your figures, but the calculations are incorrect.

It does help if you read the article that you are using to base your point on.

"I voted leave because I think some in the EU are wanting closer political union"

Cameron negotiated an exemption from ever closer political union.

"I do not like freedom of movement of people. I don't like open borders"

Its freedom of movement of Labour and we aren't in Schengen we don't have open borders.

"I do not like the fact that the ECJ is a higher legal authority than our courts"

Any trade agreement has a court of arbitration, so you will always have a higher court than the UK courts. Also we will still be in the ECHR.

You think Eastern European immigration has been to high, but don't explain why.

Oh and any trade agreement will also have rules on immigration that won't just be set by our own government.

Jesus wept.

You might say I’m aggressive coppersulphate but I think it’s simply that I don’t accept the nonsense that gets peddled without question.

miljah has disected your post perfectly well so I won’t bother but the reality is, you and all the other Leavers are still just spouting soundbites.

Not one of you has commented on the actual realities here, like where the replacement jobs for JLR workers are going to come from in this bright Brexit future.

Great post @Mijah.

Freedom of movement of labour is an extremely effective immigration policy. Very little administration and cost to the country. Vacancies are filled naturally, labour moves to where it is required. People move to where the work is either with a job secured or looking for work. If they don’t find work they (are meant to) move somewhere else. The fact that our Government doesn’t enforce the three month rule is not the EU’s fault. I believe they don’t enforce it because the cost would be more than the benefit.

The fact that local services have - in a very small number of areas - not kept pace with demand is not the EU’s fault.

FOM is good for the country but some people don’t like hearing foreign accents in supermarkets and on streets.

FOM is good for the country It's not good for everyone. Freedom of movement has brought most competition to the market for unskilled labour, thereby keeping wages low in the worst paid jobs. At the same time the millions of immigrants want housing and other scarce resources that would otherwise be available to the people already in the country.

People with highly skilled jobs and access to the bank of mum and dad or essential worker housing and secure public sector jobs and pensions may be completely happy with an influx of van drivers making their internet purchases cheaper but a van driver with 20 years in the industry will, quite rightly, see it differently.

At the same time the millions of immigrants want housing and other scarce resources that would otherwise be available to the people already in the country.

How many ‘millions’ of immigrants do you think actually live in this country?

And how many of them are from EU countries milly?

Just under 4 million are from the EU. The rate of immigration from the EU has reduced since the referendum. For some people this is a bad thing but for others it is a good thing. I am an employer but I am from a "working class background" so I understand the pros and cons of immigration. If you would like to understand leavers you have to acknowledge the cons as well as the pros of FOM. Some people on these threads seem to have a problem understanding that there are two sides to every story!

" Freedom of movement has brought most competition to the market for unskilled labour, thereby keeping wages low in the worst paid jobs."

This is a myth and is just not true. All of the research shows that immigration has had an extremely low effect on wages of the lowest paid.

"At the same time the millions of immigrants want housing and other scarce resources that would otherwise be available to the people already in the country."

The ONS data on house prices shows that immigration has increased prices by 20 percent over 25 years, but house prices over all have risen by 320 percent, so immigration has caused a 0.8 PA increase whilst other factors have caused a 12 percent PA increase.

So immigration is not the driving force behind rising house prices, nor would they be much more affordable without it.

So why have wages been creeping up since the referendum? What does the "research" say about that?

Do you have data on private rental prices?

So 4 million (ish) people are responsible for all the strains on resources in this country?

What about the expats who don’t live here now but may come back if they can no longer settle in the EU?

millyontt
All the EU citizens I know in the UK are married to British citizens so there is no increase in housing requirement and as they are professionals they are paying tax to HMRC.
Maybe address teenage pregnancy and the 'requirement' that too many fall out with their boyfriends and 'demand' housing of their own. This is a problem, in the way that immigration without due checks and balances is a problem, but it is only an issue if you ignore it and refuse to make adjustments to suit.

"So why have wages been creeping up since the referendum? What does the "research" say about that?"

Wages rose between 2004 and 2008 too during the highest period of EU immigration into the country.

Wages have been rising since the referendum, very slowly, for a number of reasons, low unemployment in the UK being the major one, and the increase to public sector wages in the last year.

In fact between 1994 and 2017 wages for the lowest paid rose 49 per cent.

So why have wages been creeping up since the referendum? What does the "research" say about that?

Wages across the EU are rising at 2.7%. Wage growth in the UK has been weak compared to much of Europe.

Well it's not helping is it. Four million people are a lot

{So immigration is not the driving force behind rising house prices, nor would they be much more affordable without it.}
A significant number of the immigrants were tradespeople involved in building houses. Crossrail has been delayed a year because too many Polish and other workers have gone back to their original countries.

All the EU citizens I know in the UK are married to British citizens so there is no increase in housing requirement and as they are professionals they are paying tax to HMRC. Are you actually saying you do not know any EU citizens that are not professionals and not married to Brits? If that is true, you are a classic example of someone who lives in a remainer bubble so we can take all your opinions on Brexit with a pinch of salt.

"Four million people are a lot"

Actually because of the healthy migrant factor immigrants are less likely to use health services, and so don't put a strain on these resources.

Schools? That's another thing down to central government planning, but the children of EU immigrants make a small % of the school population in total oh and 87% percent of children get their first choice school. 95% get their one of their top two.