Westministenders: Teetering on the edge

[RedToothBrush]

12 weeks to go.

There is rising confidence in the Extreme Brexiteer camp as well as open comments about how they can deliberately force through No Deal. Remember No Deal is the default. Every political crisis that takes up time makes no deal more likely and the ERG can just be obstructive to facilitate a political crisis. Parliament DO NOT have the ultimate power to stop Brexit - unless the government effectively allow an option to do so. And there is no sign May will let this ever happen. No Deal takes us back to pre-industrial revolution Britain in many social and economic ways. Which will please Jacob Rees-Mogg no end.

No Deal prep is now costing us a fortune - and is no where near sufficient in its scope. Won't someone think of all the extra that could have been put into the NHS.

Parliament returns next week. I hope you have enjoyed your Christmas break. What will happen in 2019 no one knows; the only certainity is turbulance and lurching from crisis to crisis. If we don't get hit by Brexit, maybe it will be the US shutdown crisis or the collaspe in the Chinese economy that will get us. Economists are nervous and thats generally not a good thing for the average person on the street.

Time to get in the euros, stock up on the tomatoes, invest in books and otherwise batten down the hatches financially whilst we await the coming storm in the hope that the forecasters are as good as Michael Fish in 1987.

The NHS was built on imported workers. I know because my Irish mum was one in the late 40s and 50s. Her colleagues were Irish, West Indian and French. Thanks for the continued EU citizenship and passport, Mum.

The world was a lot different in the '40's and '50's and was recovering from a bit of a European scrap.
The failure to train medics has been an ongoing policy for years and is not the tactic for a supposed 'world leader' that wants to be seen as outgoing and responsible.
A mass training scheme where there are a surfeit of medics trained in the UK would sort out UK needs and provide 'ambassadors' to other countries. This thinking might be a bit progressive for the current government as could be judged by having BoJo ad a foreign secretary and even Hunt is a bit undiplomatic.

1) he wants to reset society. Pull it all down so something better can be built out if the ashes. He doesn’t seem to care about the people who will be hurt along the way.
2) for the hell of it. He just wants to see if he’s as good as he thinks he is.

Didn't (and won't) watch the programme.

But isn't this just a description of your bog standard disaster capitalist (or disaster marxist, fwiw)?

This is really where right and left meet: in the belief that some white blokes with anger management issues should get to tear down society and the rest of us should just suck it up.

Thinking about the miserly amount May has 'pledged', it does fit in with the 'wreck the UK' policy as it isn't even sustaining, never mind bold and forward looking.
The UK used to have a good reputation for training, and it could be one thing that would provide ongoing benefit to the UK when the other industries start leaving in March.

This is really where right and left meet: in the belief that some white blokes with anger management issues should get to tear down society and the rest of us should just suck it up

You’re right misti the true believers all seem to want to reset society. Brexit is just the button that does it for them.

{Didn't (and won't) watch the programme.}
No telly so couldn't watch the programme.

{he wants to reset society. Pull it all down so something better can be built out if the ashes. }
To a degree I agree that this is necessary as, particularly the people who don't interact with 'foreigners' regularly seem to have an over inflated sense of 'greatness' of the UK. Of course there are brilliant people in the UK but not necessarily as a whole, the same with every other country, none are universally 'special'.
I get stuck with the mechanism by which the UK could learn to accept it 'non special' status without people dying or getting hurt.

There's a fair bit of arrogance in there, believing that what is rebuilt from the ashes will be favourable to you.

Well said misti

What's the term? Gammon?

A term used to describe a particular type of Brexit-voting, europhobic, middle-aged white male, whose meat-faced complexion suggests they are perilously close to a stroke.

Is it just me, or is there an even more hysterical edge to the Express today ?

When the history of Brexit is studied (long after we're all dust), one of the peculiarities that will be highlighted will be the incredible sense of insecurity all the cheerleaders on the winning side exhibited after the result they craved.

To a degree I agree that this is necessary as, particularly the people who don't interact with 'foreigners' regularly seem to have an over inflated sense of 'greatness' of the UK.

I agree with this and it is also true that many also lack understanding and empathy for those less well off who are struggling and who stand to suffer the most from this. PIL firmly believe that most ‘poor people’ are lazy and that this is a lifestyle choice. Apparently they should just educate themselves and get a better job because this is what happened back in their day.

{Baroness Meyer claimed France and Germany are in a worse economic situation to the UK and their political scene is not looking any better either.

She said: “I think for the French and the Germans, having a European Union without the Brits is going to be very frightening.}
While this may have some truth behind it there is not sufficient evidence that the UK wants to play the part of a reliable European partner and for the last couple of years at least has done all it can to be unpleasant.
So, what is Baroness Meyer proposing should happen?
In the light of the 'hostile environment' to both EU citizens and by refusing to work around the main pillars of trade with the EU which binds the EU together, will the UK now make a MASSIVE U turn and become EU friendly, Revoke and 'play nice'?
Not sufficient evidence so far.

Thanks Hazard and Bellini, I agree it’s a relief to see someone actually trying to do something.

Have just found a bit of time to reread some of yesterday’s thread more closely (had only had a chance to skim read). Somehow I’d missed Mrsr8 raising the possibility of being unable to see the last series of Game of Thrones. Have had to resort to putting my hands over my ears and going ‘lalalala I’m not listening’ .

{Apparently they should just educate themselves and get a better job because this is what happened back in their day.}
To a small degree I agree with this BUT the government MUST have a long standing (cross party collaboration and continuation if the government changes) which ENABLE job creation and SUSTAINABLE lifestyle. I am not meaning the 'Gig economy'.
As a massive oversimplification and not intending racial stereotyping but when some Asians came to the UK they set too and started trading, the 'corner shop' and by working long hours would build up and support their families. This entrepreneurial aspect was seen in reverse in Uganda when Amin threw out the Asians (many who came to Britain) saw significant falls in organisation and trade in Uganda.

And now we have Steve Barclay saying that the abuse that Anna Soubry is getting is an indication as to why we should not have a People's Vote.

jas The EU have repeatedly said the WA cannot be renegotiated

However, it sounds like the PD could be modified to allow the eventual aim of a 3rd EEA pillar that is SM+CU+other things we might need, e.g. financial passporting

babooshka Yes, No Deal is still what automatically happens if the Uk does not sign the WA or Revoke A50
The HoC has no power to avoid No Deal, except by choosing something else, either option or a PV

Trying to stop some money for No Deal prepping is raising the stakes, trying to make No Deal even more scary

• imo, No Deal is already such a catastrophe that these few measures would make little difference

However, it serves to express the strength of feeling against it
and may help give the govt an "out" if it wants an excuse to revoke later

Danger is: it also leaves the govt someone to blame afterwards for the problems if we hit No Deal

Tbf, he's got something of a point. But that also puts the responsibility on MPs to do their fucking jobs properly. Which seems just as dangerous as a PV at this point.

Is it just me, or is there an even more hysterical edge to the Express today ?

Is the Express headline about the Sidmouth fatberg? Very curious, if so?

Perhaps those who think we can be self sufficient in everything with minimal or zero international trade will suggest reusing our fatbergs (on bread and dripping obvs).

Sorry, Express Online (Google keeps lining up Express stories in in my "feed")

Disgraceful that the police allow such aggressive intimidation of an MP, 🤯
particularly after the murder of Jo Cox and with the threats of violence Soubry has already received

Peaceful demonstrators are fine, but those who intimidate with physical proximity, insults or threats should be removed.

I wonder if the Speaker has the power to call in the Met Commissioner, or the direct chief of the police responsible for HoC security ?
The Home Secretary is being lax too - is he waiting for a tragedy ?

Danger is: it also leaves the govt someone to blame afterwards for the problems if we hit No Deal

I agree. And I think Yvette is walking into something of a trap with this approach.

It strikes me as a 'we must do SOMETHING moment' rather than a well thought out strategy. It smells of desperation rather than a tangible and productive idea.

Sometimes doing something can be worse than doing nothing if the doing something is just crap.

DG I heard about the .eu domain issue several months ago
It's reasonable that only EU-based companies can have this domain

I'm surprised if Uk-based businesses have not already made contingency plans, but of course it involves costs - as does every other consequence of Brexit, often to both sides.

I agree. And I think Yvette is walking into something of a trap with this approach.

But last rumour we heard the govt we're not planning to oppose it? So if it's a trap it's one for which responsibility is shared?

Danger is: it also leaves the govt someone to blame afterwards for the problems if we hit No Deal

Do you know this is the least of my worries. If we can avoid no deal and preferably revoke they can blame MN , Westministenderes or mpeven me . I really won’t care! , probably wear that badge with honour actually!

were not we're - must try harder.

BCF I'm fairly sure i remember the EU saying that the WA cannot be renegotiated..... so long as Mays red lines remain in place.

Which is why they would grant an extension (to A50) in the event of a GE, new Government, potentially new negotiating conditions.