Westministenders: Teetering on the edge

[RedToothBrush]

12 weeks to go.

There is rising confidence in the Extreme Brexiteer camp as well as open comments about how they can deliberately force through No Deal. Remember No Deal is the default. Every political crisis that takes up time makes no deal more likely and the ERG can just be obstructive to facilitate a political crisis. Parliament DO NOT have the ultimate power to stop Brexit - unless the government effectively allow an option to do so. And there is no sign May will let this ever happen. No Deal takes us back to pre-industrial revolution Britain in many social and economic ways. Which will please Jacob Rees-Mogg no end.

No Deal prep is now costing us a fortune - and is no where near sufficient in its scope. Won't someone think of all the extra that could have been put into the NHS.

Parliament returns next week. I hope you have enjoyed your Christmas break. What will happen in 2019 no one knows; the only certainity is turbulance and lurching from crisis to crisis. If we don't get hit by Brexit, maybe it will be the US shutdown crisis or the collaspe in the Chinese economy that will get us. Economists are nervous and thats generally not a good thing for the average person on the street.

Time to get in the euros, stock up on the tomatoes, invest in books and otherwise batten down the hatches financially whilst we await the coming storm in the hope that the forecasters are as good as Michael Fish in 1987.

Well, tip When you consider the huge number of moles that the Security Services had in the IRA and Sinn Fein

and the number they have in very innocuous environmental, peace or other totally legitimate organisations, or those thought to be soft on the USSR / Russia ....

including in the past the Labour party ....

Your OH might just be right !

However, it would be such a deep secret that I don't think even the 30 years rule would be enough.
It would probably be 100 years

So your DH's ghost could only gloat at your ghost
.... unless an MI5 officer abroad does a SpyCatcher and leaks the biggest ever scandal 😂

< to be serious, not really likely, but I wouldn't laugh at your DH as much as I would have done 2 years ago >

I needed interventions for both my babies.
I value the NHS greatly.
But as an immigrant I'm also VERY aware that the NHS has been stealing trained nurses from the rest of the world since its inception
rather than the UK paying to train its own medics.

The UK's reliance on foreign labour has been an increasing failing over the decades and Brexit is just a partial culmination of that.

Many thanks

I have done a total 180 degree turn on JC - from thinking that he was a breath of fresh air to feeling quite murderous towards him. The Tories have presented him and the Labour Party with the biggest open goal ever and they have done absolutely nothing to capitalise on it

I'm all for keeping my powder dry here. If you remove emotion and sentiment from the situation, so far, whilst JC may not have acted as Remainers, or indeed most Labour members might have wished him to act, the ultimate question is Qui laeditur?

I don't think he is an idiot, and he's too long in the tooth to be naive (especially after the LibDem experience at the hands of the MSM).

So with that, there is a case to be made that his conduct thus far is entirely consistent with ensuring that as much negative publicity is thrown at Brexit, and the Tories as possible. The only way to do that in the partisan land of the UKs media is to game them at their own game.

As long as he looks, acts and talks like he is (however reluctantly) committed to "delivering the referendum result" then not only does he not draw fire from the snakepit that is Brexit. He also gets more favourable coverage than if he asserted an "opposition" stance.

Yes, the downside of this approach is a lot of badmouthing on Mumsnet. But somehow I can't see that causing too much of a problem.

We're still in the "phoney war" stage here. Until that sodding vote happens (and I have still yet to believe it will) then there is no advantage to a non-Brexit-supporting stance, and every disadvantage to a pro-Remain one.

Also, by tacitly supporting Brexit (thus far) the Corbyn stance slightly diverts scrutiny from the MSM who must have their work cut out seeking out and smashing down any bubble of Brexit resistance they find - look at the "sabotage" comment from the BBC (?) upthread. (With extra irony that "sabotage is of course a French word ....)

So - except by omission - what has JC done that is so bad so far ?

I look forward to this analysis being trashed in 3...2...1

JC has unleashed Momentum on every moderate labour MP
JC has allowed antisemitism to become acceptable within the party
JC has expected loyalty when he gave none
JC has abolished all pretence at "evidence based decision making"

apart from that he's good at growing veg I gather

@Ta1kinPeace

You see I wouldn't even have a clue what you are on about if didn't post here ... I am not saying you are wrong. But none of those things are really the details that most voters dig into. If it was we wouldn't end up with shits like JRM.

Incidentally, all of those points are guaranteed to make Tory voters feel a lot lot more relaxed about JC, and believe he's backing Brexit.

Whenever you feel a compulsion to trust your fellow citizens, it's a good idea to stop and remember that more people know their starsign than their blood group. (And I say that as someone who might the one of the last people who can cast a horoscope)

and I disagree with DG's "I don't think he is an idiot"

At the top level of politics, Mr E-grade dropout does not have the brains of the others
and it's not like he studies hard or works hard to make up for it

He was adequate - if you like the type - as an overage student agitator, hanging out with people who would shock the straights.

However, he is grossly over-promoted as party leader and should have stayed on the backbenches

I do think that cleverer brains - like McDonnel - may be pulling his strings
and they may possibly be playing a very clever game and planning a 80 degree turn to Remain in the last weeks before Brexit
or they may just try to compromise with all their voters and abstain on a later WA vote

Do we need to worry about Ramsgate dredging or do we trust them to subcontract properly ...

Tom Boadle@TomBoadle (SkyNews)

Dredging has begun at the Port of Ramsgate this morning as preparations continue to get the port ready for a no-deal Brexit.

Seaborne Freight which received £13.8m govt contract is paying a Dutch dredging company to do the work.

JC has unleashed Momentum on every moderate labour MP

The 'moderate' MP's as far as I know are from the blairite/right of the PLP that arent reflecting the will of their members/constituents Frank Field for example

JC has allowed antisemitism to become acceptable within the party

There is greater islamaphobia and anti semitism in the Tory party but none of the MSM have weaponished it against them, I think the picture we were given wasnt a true one

JC has expected loyalty when he gave none

He voted against his own party when it wasnt inline with his conscience, I wish more MP's would do that instead of toeing party lines

JC has abolished all pretence at "evidence based decision making"

Not sure what youre referencing there, sorry TP could you clarify?

JC has abolished all pretence at "evidence based decision making"

Not really sure why that's worthy of mention. Unless the UK has suddenly started living and breathing evidence-based policies (looks outside - nope still the same).

Remember "evidence-based" needs those pesky "experts".

www.epilepsyresearch.org.uk/big-win-for-people-with-epilepsy-epilepsy-medications-will-be-exempt-from-brexit-after-coalition-intervenes/

So it has been agreed that the gov won't allow pharmacists to switch meds for epilepsy patients. I can understand the request as switching meds can cause big issues. However..... This totally misses the point about of what will happen if the pharmacy does not have the person's usual medication in stock. Are they just supposed to magic it up? Are the gov giving guarantees that the meds will be there? Don't think so. Brexit planning at its finest.

I find this whole idea that MPs being voted out by the members they represent through a democratic process is some sort of terrible treacherous conspiracy sort of odd. Surely of the party no longer feels a particular MP represents them they are within their rights to not vote for them again.

I think that epilepsy coalition have been given a meaningless piece of paper while someone from government patted them on the head and told them it would all be fine. It makes no sense at all. There are loads of drugs that would have similar risks if changed surely.

Happy New Year all !

Just an update that as a result of not being able to source the preferred medicine for my glaucoma (Teoptic) my consultant feels a surgical intervention whilst medically undesirable might be a better route to preserve the vision I have left. Especially given they have had no assurances about the supply of any drugs post Brexit. (Or rather due to some schoolboy howlers in the facts, they have no confidence in the assurances they have been told they've had.)

But at least I quietly was able to stockpile the drugs I can get ... enough to last till May.

Of course glaucoma "the thief of sight" has no obvious external symptoms, and even as it progresses, the sufferer (victim ?) is unaware until it's too late. The usual pointer is unexplained clumsiness or entirely avoidable RTAs, as the peripheral vision slowly dies.

Keep up the good work, vipers !

Hello LH - and Happy New Year.

I think of you often.

Sending much love your way. ❤️

Bigly It would be fair enough if Momentum didn't do this bloc-voting thing.

Also, AGMs tend to be poorly attended. People don't realise a motion of no confidence in their MP will be put forward.

It takes time and organising to warn people and get them along.

Far easier if you are part of a group, meeting separately, who discuss it and decide, then all turn up, en masse.

At present, non-Momentum members haven't organised into an anti-Momentum bloc. There's a real squeamishness about doing something like that. Has echoes of Progress - and a lot of members actually dislike Progress and feel a real bitterness towards it.

Momentum are actually a minority in the LP but the bloc organising is very effective. Not just for deselection but for selection. It's how people like Lily Madigsn get elected - and it takes quite a lot of effort to stop it.

I think our MP, who is great on Brexit, May face a deselection bid. ☹️

But then ... Kate Hoey ...

Justanotherpotato

^ The 'moderate' MP's^:
Overwhelmingly those who support Remain and hence ally with the views of 70% of Labour members and 90% of Labour voters.

Blair was 25% ahead of the Tories in the opinion polls, when the Tories were not making anything like as horrendous a mess as they are now.

Corbyn should have at least that kind of lead,
but he is horrendously unpopular with many former traditional Labour voters, the centre-left and also the floating centre voters that any party needs to win a GE

Corbyn is rated far worse than May on most issues, including crucially on who would be the best PM and who would do better on Brexit.
That's not the party; that's him personally, his views and his dodgy history repelling many voters, including former Labour ones.

Anti-semitism:

Corbyn is the leader of the party, no longer an unimpotant back-bencher
No Tory leader, including May, has stood on the same platform as Holocaust-deniers, or reTweeted anti-semitic posts

Labour make a great thing out of being against racism, whereas Tories only give it lip service.
Labour are adding hypocrisy to insult

Hammering them more for antisemitism is like we'd hammer them more if one of their MPs made huge profits out of dodgy hedge-fund dealings.

Loyalty
He rebelled against his own party on about 500 different votes, but he was not deselected.

However, his cabal threaten MPs with deselection just for criticising him, or going against his Brexit üpolicy - i.e. better representing Labour voters than he does

"evidence based decision making"

Well the govt has abolished that too
but then

there is no reason to vote for an Opposition with the slogan "they did it too" or "we're no worse than they are"^

The Opposition has to convince the voters that it would do better.

Hi LH Happy new Year and to MrsLH

As another one with several eye conditions - including signs of early glaucoma - I'm so glad I'm in Germany with my choice of specialists, no waiting lists or med shortages looming etc
... and I really hope I can stay here !

Potato

{But as an immigrant I'm also VERY aware that the NHS has been stealing trained nurses from the rest of the world since its inception
rather than the UK paying to train its own medics.}
Of course as the UK used to have a good reputation for training medical staff it SHOULD have capitalised in this by not only training UK but also those of overseas so improving life worldwide. Even if it cost more on paper to the UK there are knock on effects that would have 'repaid' many times over. The fact that the UK is happy to be supplying weapons systems to Saudi and many other places over what it could be doing in spreading high quality nursing.
Some might even want to stay in the UK if it was paid properly.

Justanother
The 'moderate' MP's as far as I know are from the blairite/right of the PLP that arent reflecting the will of their members/constituents Frank Field for example
How do you know?
Party members are a TINY proportion of constituents.
Having been to an MP surgery session, my MP was representing his voters extremely well
But hey !
Momentum folks clearly know better

Having been to an MP surgery session, my MP was representing his voters extremely well But hey !

To be fair, the vast majority of reports from people who engage their MP - regardless of the political mix - have been positive.

sorry poster You can tell I was planning supper !